Messages posted by: NIC

Hi Katie,

Welcome to the CVA Website and Forums. I hope we can help you find out about your grandfather.
You say, 'from what I gather, he was a Royal Marine Commando...'

The thing is, in WWII not all Royal Marines were Commandos (as they are now).
It could be that he was a Royal Marine but he may not have been a RM Commando...
Your mum said he talked about Egypt and you mention the name Sphinx - HMS Sphinx was the name given to a RN accommodation camp in Alexandria, Egypt, from April 1941.

As a brief explanation there now follows a short history lesson... ;)

The Royal Marines can trace their roots back to 1664, however, this body of 'sea soldiers' was not known as The Royal Marine until 1755. At this time they were, basically, ship borne light infantry troops.
Around 1804, there was a need for artillery trained soldiers to man the 'bomb ketches' thus the Royal Marine Artillery (RMA) was established. As their uniforms were the blue of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, this group was nicknamed the "Blue Marines" and the Infantry element, who wore the scarlet uniforms of the British infantry, became known as the "Red Marines".

In 1855, the Marine Infantry forces were renamed Royal Marine Light Infantry (RMLI).

In 1919, the 6th Battalion RMLI mutinied and was disbanded at Murmansk.
The RMA and RMLI were amalgamated on 22 June 1923.

In 1940 the first Commando Units were established - but these were made up from individual volunteers from all the regiments & Corps in the Army
In May '42, Mountbatten requested permission be granted for the Special Service Brigade ( later to be known as Commando Brigade) to wear distinctive headdress. In October the same year, permission was granted "for the wearing of a green beret by personnel of the Special Service Brigade..."

In early 1942, Churchill wanted more Commando units to be formed and queried why there was so many Royal Marines on the HBL (Home Base Ledger) - personnel serving within the UK.
In February 1942, a unit known as The RM Commando was formed, it was briefly known as "A" RM Commando before being designated 40 Royal Marine Commando, Royal Marines. It was the only Royal Marine Commando formed entirely from volunteers as with the Army Commandos.

On 8 July 1943, His Majesty The King gave his approval for the issue of a blue beret to be worn by Royal Marines.
From 14 August 1943, all RM officers and Other Ranks serving in Special Service Force will wear a green beret in lieu of the RM blue beret.

A further eight RM infantry Battalions were converted, as a whole unit, to become RM Commandos - the last, 48 RM Commando, finishing a shortened commando course days before D-Day.

Because of the expansion of the Special Service Force, four Special Service Brigades were formed. Each consisted of four Commando Units - usually a combination of Army & RM Commandos [eg 3 SS Brigade consisted of: No.1 Commando, No.5 Commando, 42 RM Commando & 44 RM Commando] These Special Service Brigades were later changed to Commando Brigades.

At the end of hostilities the, irregular, Army Commandos were disbanded and the commando role was handed to the Royal Marine Corps. Gradually all RMs underwent Commando training until, in 1964, all Royal Marines had been commando trained and the title RM Commando was dropped and all personnel were now entitled to wear the coveted green beret...

So what about your grandfather, Bernard Murray...

Well the only way to find out about him is to read his service records. Unfortunately we, the CVA, are not privy to WWII records - the only custodian of WWII Service Records is the MoD! The good news is that your family can apply to the MoD for a scan of the original, handwritten service records of your grandfather.
There is a one off fee of £30 and you'll need a copy of your grandfather's death certificate and to fill out two forms but you will find out more info and give you a better idea of what your grandfather did and how to build on your research...

Here are the links to the forms that you'll need - they are fairly straight forward but should youneed any help - than we're here to help...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711147/20180524-request_service_details_NOK_part1_v6.2.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711157/request_for_service_details_rnrm_application_part2__1_.pdf

Cheers,
Nick

Hi Nina,

Thank you so much for the higher resolution photos - they are much better!
I have enhanced one of the group shots a bit and discovered what I think is an interesting photo...

As far as I can see from the rank badges that are visible, the group consists of a WO I, a WO II, 3 Sgts and one L/Cpl ( your father).
I believe that it's possible that 3 of the cap badges are the 'Jimmy' of the Royal Signals...

Thanks
Nick

Hi Nina,

Well now you've witnessed, first hand, how useful these group photos can be to identify commandos, you'll understand why photos are such an important part of the Website and a very useful tool for those of us carrying out research...
But, as Pete pointed out, the original set that you posted were very, very low resolution.

Is there any way you can improve them by scanning them to a higher resolution?

Nick

Nina,

Following on from Danny's post, have a look at the big commando with a pipe and the Seaforth Highlander's cap badge in each of these photos...

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/IMG_0044+copy.jpg.html

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/IMG_0041_2+copy.jpg.html

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/IMG_0027+copy.jpg.html

Nick

Great spot Danny, we're getting closer to finding out which Commando David Irvine was in...

Hi Nina,
Welcome to the CVA Website & Forums.

I haven't got your father listed in any of the Nominal Rolls we have compiled for the Commando Units. That doesn't mean that he wasn't a commando - indeed you have the evidence to show he was - but during the War there was no definitive nominal roll (that we have been able to find) so the CVA has tried to compile one for each WWII Commando Unit.
This has involved a huge amount of research by a very small group of amateur researchers and we are very proud of our achievements.
The nominal rolls are not definitive, there will be mistakes and omissions but we are more than happy to make amendments and add names to the nominal rolls.

We will add your father to the relevant NR as soon as we can find out which unit he was in...
Unfortunately we are not in possession of his service records - they are held by the MoD - the only custodians of WWII Service Records.
The good news is that you can apply to the MoD for a scan of the original Service Record and this will give all the details of his Army service - including which Commando he was in...

It will cost £30 one off fee, and you'll need a copy of his death certificate and to fill in the attached two forms (click on the links)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711147/20180524-request_service_details_NOK_part1_v6.2.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/545060/request_for_service_details_army_application_part2_1_.pdf

The forms are fairly straight forward but please don't hesitate to ask us for help if you need it.
I should add that if your mother is still with us and signs the consent form as Next of Kin then the MoD will waive the £30 fee.

In the mean time, do you have any photos of your dad that you are happy to share with us?
If so post them in this thread and we'll look and see if there is any clue to0 identify which Commando he was in...

Nick

Petty officer Ron McKinlay found himself on the wrong invasion beach at Normandy after his landing craft was blown up and he was forced to swim to shore.
He teamed up with a handful of other 'lost' men and set out for their original objective two-and-a-half miles away, only to encounter a number of enemy gun emplacements along the way.
Being the only commando in the group, Ron was nominated to destroy one of the 88mm gun emplacements which he did by sneaking up close enough to hurl three grenades at it.
He captured the only enemy survivor of the attack, a 'huge' German soldier.
But as he marched him back towards his group, a colleague mistook the situation and shot the prisoner, much to Ron's fury.
Later on D-Day, the seaman was involved in a bizarre and comical moment when he thought he saw an enemy soldier coming right towards him wielding a pistol.
It was only when 'both' men opened fire at the same time he realised he had shot at a reflection of himself in a large mirror that had put up in a dug-out he had just searched.
Still on June 6, Ron distinguished himself again by braving sniper fire to drag to safety a wounded comrade who was being shot at while lying face down in the dirt. He was one of only two men to receive the prestigious Conspicuous Gallantry Medal for his brave actions on D-Day.
He went on to serve as a Royal Navy frogman under Commander Lionel 'Buster' Crabb, who infamously disappeared during a reconnaissance mission on a Soviet ship in Portsmouth Harbour in 1956.

The scenario where he opened fire only to realise that he was shooting at an image of himself in a mirror would grace any film script.
So perhaps it was appropriate that after the war he was one of the naval personnel who worked alongside the movie star John Mills in the 1955 film, 'Above Us the Waves.'

Ron was the son of a publican from Portsmouth, Hants, and worked as a humble Post Office messenger before the outbreak of the Second World War.
He volunteered to join the Royal Navy in 1941 when he was aged 17 and in March 1943 he was sent on specialist training as a Royal Navy Commando.
On D-Day his task was to leap ashore on Juno Beach and erect signs to mark the beach exits for the Duplex Drive tanks rolling off landing crafts (LCTs).
But as his LCT neared the shore it was hit by an 88mm shell. The damaged craft drifted out of control and Ron jumped overboard to avoid the bullets and mortar bombs exploding around it.
In a cassette recording of him relating his wartime experiences he states: "I was furious to think that after all my training...I was going to be denied my finest hour...
We were under fire as we hit the beach and we all made for cover.
The only other personnel on this beach were dead.
I remember the bodies being washed in and out with the waves - they just rolled in and out."

Ron landed on Gold Beach instead of Juno. The small party, led by a major, trekked towards their objective when they encountered the German 88mm guns.
After storming the enemy position with grenades, he recalled:
"I started weaving in and out of sand dunes, as I rounded one there was this large German pointing his rifle at me.
At the time he looked 10 feet tall. He lowered his rifle and I lifted mine. I was not afraid, nor did I have any instinct to kill. I took his rifle, searched him and directed him back to our lines.
Then something happened which filled me with shame.
As he continued to walk around the dune, a single shot rang out and he fell clutching his hands to his stomach.
As I got to him the blood was coming through his fingers. He looked up at me, and I will never forget that look.
I found myself saying, 'I'm bloody sorry, it wasn't me'
But inside I was angry, there was this man surrendering with his hands in the air who had just been shot."

Hi George,

Yes that's right, he was a Royal Marine not a Royal Marine Commando.
Another distinction is that RM Commandos did not serve aboard ships!

Well, we will continue to try to help you in your quest, but there are other avenues to try - the Royal Marine Association may be able to help.

I have had a quick search in the London Gazette for any mention of Dennis's Military Medal but couldn't find it.

Nick

Hi George,

Well, looking at Dennis' service record, I'm going to surprise you when I tell you that Dennis Glasscock, MM, was not a commando...

I'm afraid you have fallen for the very common misconception that, because all Royal Marines today are commandos, they have always been so...
But that is not the case...

Tracing their roots back to 1664, this body of 'sea soldiers' was not known as The Royal Marine until 1755. At this time they were, basically, ship borne light infantry troops.
Around 1804, there was a need for artillery trained soldiers to man the 'bomb ketches' thus the Royal Marine Artillery (RMA) was established. As their uniforms were the blue of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, this group was nicknamed the "Blue Marines" and the Infantry element, who wore the scarlet uniforms of the British infantry, became known as the "Red Marines".

In 1855, the Marine Infantry forces were renamed Royal Marine Light Infantry (RMLI).

In 1919, the 6th Battalion RMLI mutinied and was disbanded at Murmansk.
The RMA and RMLI were amalgamated on 22 June 1923.

In 1940 the first Commando Units were established - but these were made up from individual volunteers from all the regiments & Corps in the Army
In May '42, Mountbatten requested permission be granted for the Special Service Brigade ( later to be known as Commando Brigade) to wear distinctive headdress. In October the same year, permission was granted "for the wearing of a green beret by personnel of the Special Service Brigade..."

In early 1942, Churchill wanted more Commando units to be formed and queried why there was so many Royal Marines on the HBL (Home Base Ledger) - personnel serving within the UK.
In February 1942, a unit known as The RM Commando was formed, it was briefly known as "A" RM Commando before being designated 40 Royal Marine Commando, Royal Marines. It was the only Royal Marine Commando formed entirely from volunteers as with the Army Commandos.

On 8 July 1943, His Majesty The King gave his approval for the issue of a blue beret to be worn by Royal Marines.
From 14 August 1943, all RM officers and Other Ranks serving in Special Service Force will wear a green beret in lieu of the RM blue beret.

A further eight RM infantry Battalions were converted, as a whole unit, to become RM Commandos - the last, 48 RM Commando, finishing a shortened commando course days before D-Day.

Because of the expansion of the Special Service Force, four Special Service Brigades were formed. Each consisted of four Commando Units - usually a combination of Army & RM Commandos [eg 3 SS Brigade consisted of: No.1 Commando, No.5 Commando, 42 RM Commando & 44 RM Commando] These Special Service Brigades were later changed to Commando Brigades.

At the end of hostilities the, irregular, Army Commandos were disbanded and the commando role was handed to the Royal Marine Corps. Gradually all RMs underwent Commando training until, in 1964, all Royal Marines had been commando trained and the title RM Commando was dropped and all personnel were now entitled to wear the coveted green beret...

So, what about Dennis?
Well he served in Combined Operations - HMS COPRA was the shore based Combined Operations Pay & Records Administration (including RM Landing craft crews 1939- 46). Again there are many misconceptions about COPRA but the main one is that it was a ship as many RN & RM gravestones are inscribed with HMS COPRA...
In fact, these brave souls were serving in Combined Ops and many went down in their Landing Craft etc. the number of which was not recorded - so they were recorded as serving with HMS COPRA.

33 RM Bn - one of 3 battalions of 117 RM Brigade it formed at Deal late in January 1945. The 33rd RM Battalion was flown to Germany to assist 116 RM Bde in accepting surrender of the German fleet, and had some casualties. The 31st and
32nd RM Battalions joined the 33rd in the second week of May 1945. They carried out security duties in the Kiel area until returning to the UK in July 1945, and the 31st and 32nd were disbanded shortly afterwards; the 33rd absorbed some men from the other Battalions before itself being disbanded at Towyn on 7 October 1945.

HMS. Highflyer - was the name of the Royal Navy shore establishment in Trincomalee, Ceylon, commissioned on 1 July 1943 until 1958.

HMS Ukussa - Established in Sri Lanka in 1944, by the Fleet Air Arm, at its peek it was the largest Royal Naval Air Stations of the time staffed by 300 Officers, 3000 sailors and 100 WRNs. It serviced more than 100 aircraft at any given time whilst maintaining at aircraft repair yard.

https://www.royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk/sites/default/files/RM%20Unit%20Histories%201919-1997.pdf

Hope this helps...

Nick

Hi George,

Welcome to the CVA Website & Forum.

Can you advise:
a. Whether Dennis Glasscock was an Army Commando or RM Commando?
b. Which Commando Unit he was in?

Are there any photos of Dennis that you can post to give us a start.

Nick

Hi Gary,

That's brilliant - just the stuff I need and the service number fits in with the Essex Regt too...

Thanks and now you'll find 'Chalky' on this link...

http://www.commandoveterans.org/2CommandoNomRollQ-Z

Nick

Hi Gary,

William White does not appear on our No.2 Commando Nominal Roll and, unfortunately, I cannot add him to the Roll just on anecdotal evidence. If you can find anything of substance to show that he was a commando, I will be homoured to add him.
If you can post the photos they may have something which will tell us he was a commando...

When did William pass away?

Nick

Hi Gary,

Do you know Bill White's full name at all?

The best time to visit Achnacarry and surrounding area is during Remembrance Week ...
The Commandos celebrate Remembrance Sunday in Fort William and then at the Commando Memorial - a very moving ceremony.
There are two other museums which are worth a visit - West Highland Museum in Fort William which has a permanent exhibition dedicated to The Commandos - and the Commando Museum at the Spean Bridge Hotel - a couple of our local associate members act as Stewards and have now got this smashing little exhibition back to a well ordered and catalogued tribute to The Commandos.

Nick

Hi Mike,
Welcome to the CVA Website & Forums and thanks for following Mark Brockway's advice and starting a new Topic - I will delete your original post which, as Mark pointed out, is in the wrong Forum ( thanks Mark).

You'll be pleased to now that we do have your father listed on the No.3 Commando Nominal Roll ( see link) I see we have his parent regiment as the Worcestershire Regt - is that right?

http://www.commandoveterans.org/3CommandoNomRollD%20-%20H

If you follow this link it will take you to the No.3 Commando Page which gives a brief history of the Commando, then there is a menu, at the right hand side of the page, which has links to other information specific to No.3 Commando.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/3Commando

Having found us can I invite you to browse our unique Gallery and specifically the No.3 Commando Album
[click on each thumbnail to open the image then click on the image to enlarge it; thumbnails with a grey square surround indicate a sub-album - again click to open etc.

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/3/

Please let us know if you find any photos with your father on so we can identify him on the captions.

There are a few photos where your father has been identified - the easy way to view these is to enter his surname into the 'Search' box on the top right corner of any page in the Gallery and that will bring up all the photos with a 'Hubbard' on...

Nick

Hi Trevor,

Post any photos you have - you never know there may be an eagle-eyed reader who recognises the sandy cove having holidayed there and we can start building on that information.
Experience has certainly taught me that no matter how irrelevant a piece of information may seem to you, it just may be the key to a treasure trove of information...

In my previous post I recommended that you edit your original/first post - I think you may have misunderstood and I see you've edited your latest post instead.

If you go back to the first post you made and click on the 'edit' box in the top right hand corner you will get the page I have attached.
Go to the box adjacent to Subject and edit 'Tracing my father war record' to read "Walter Newman Cornish"

Once you have done that click on the 'Submit' box at the bottom.

Although, as Administrator, I could do this for you, it is important that you do it so you will receive notifications each time someone replies to your post.
Any problems, please let me know...

Nick