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Ha ha, stop cross posting!

Nick
hi Cat,

May I recommend the book 'D-Day Commando, from Normandy to The Maas with 48 RM Commando' by Ken Ford, to you...
Sadly, there is no mention of your gf in the book but it will give you a great insight into his experiences.

Nick


HA! so while I was busy typing with one finger (it's an age thing) you were busy editing your post with the stuff I was typing! :D

Nick
Hi Cat,

You're GOOD!
Never expected all that, but you're pretty much bang on...

So, if your grandpa was born in Mexborough and PO/X 1315 J. T. Lund was also from Mexborough (as per his MiD, gazetted on 13 Mar 1945) - I think it's fair to say they are 98.991574% one and the same person! :D

Yes he was a career marine - the prefix (PO) on his number tells us he joined up in the Portsmouth Division...
[Other RM Divisions - CH = Chatham, PLY = Plymouth]
The letter 'X' was added to the prefixes of men enlisted under the revised rates of pay on and after 5 October 1925...
By the time the use of Divisional prefixes and Divisional registers had been superseded in 1948, these sequences had reached four figures...
PO/X (4393)
CH/X (3285)
PLY/X (4897

Those with the prefixes CH/X, PLY/X, PO/X & RMB/X ( RM Band) followed by a SIX digit number in the 100000 series were ranks in the 'Hostilities Only' (HO) Service during the WWII - [PO/X 17790, CH/X 119200, PLY/X 117156]

48 RM Commando was the last of the RM Commando Units to be formed. As you know they were formed by the conversion of 7th RM Battalion to become 48 RM Cdo

RM Museum wrote:48 RM Commando

Formed at Deal 2/13 March 1944 from 7th Battalion and disbanded at Beeding, near Horsham, on 31 January 1946

Trained at Achnacarry 13 March to 3 April 1944;
6 June landed in Normandy and captured the strongpoint at Langrune-sur-Mer where the Commando remained on security duties after suffering 50 per cent casualties;
9 June reinforcements arrived, bringing strength to 250, before advance to Douvres for patrolling;
11 June in Orne line and next day advanced 1,000yds to Sallenelles where the Commando in a defence line for 60 days, although the number of patrols was limited so as not to interfere with other Commandos' patrols, since there were four Commandos on a 2,000yds front.
On 20 August moved from Troarn, bypassing Dozule to advance in daylight to reach Clermont-en-Auge, attacked German field batteries etc before midday, and later secured high ground overlooking Dozule;
25 August outflanked enemy positions near Beuzeville which were mortaring 46 RM Cdo, and next night infiltrated behind this town to St Maclou with 41 RM Cdo; advanced across Seine to Valmont against no opposition;
5?13 September in Valmont for rest; policed Le Havre for next two days;
18?27 September held front of 10,000yds investing Dunkirk and patrolling.
October trained for Walcheren operation;
on 1 November landed on Walcheren, clearing south of the 'gap' and successfully assaulted W13 battery about 1600 hours;
D+1 (2 November) captured strongpoint W287 at first light (0630 hours), 'A' Troop entering Zouteland at 1100 hours before 47 RM Cdo passed through;
clearing dunes while other units gave support fire from north of the 'gap'; the Commando moved north to support 41 RM Cdo on D+4 (5 November) before being withdrawn on 12 November.
After rest at Haan, moved to Goes (South Beveland) training reinforcements;
three Troops, 'X', 'Y', and 'Z' under command of 47 RM Cdo as only infantry in Oosterhout area at the end of December.
During March 1945 the Commando mounted five raids against Schowen and Overflakkee, the Commando suffering casualties on mines.
On 25 March in defensive positions on the River Maas at s'Hertogenbosch, a road and rail centre 6,000yds from German positions; enemy artillery and patrols were active;
in April on a quieter front of 35,000yds, as reserve to Belgians and Dutch near Kapelsches Veer;
raided in dories into the Biesbosch, among marshes and waterlogged islands;
23 April last operation by this Commando to rescue a patrol in the Biesbosch without casualties before ceasing fire, except for defence.
From 1 May to 31 August based at Minden (Germany) as defence force for the HQ of Allied Naval Commander Expeditionary Force (ANCXF);
September to 21 October at Waltrop and near by controlling displaced persons (DPs).
October to November 1945 the Commando on occupational duties at Kreis Buren looking after two camps of DPs, with patrols based on five burgomasters' offices; these patrols stopped 'black market' rackets, rapes and armed robberies;
Marine officers organised camp improvements before returning to UK on 29 November and disbanded January 1946...


48 RM Cdo were not only the youngest and the last RM Cdo formed but they had the shortest Commando Training Course as they needed to be trained for D-Day ( although they weren't aware of that at the time.
But obviously your gf was in 7th RM battalion before this - and probably would have been involved with the MNBDO...

:D (more research needed - by you!)

Au revoir for now,

Nick

Hi Cat,

Don't worry, that photo will always be there... :D

Did your grandfather come from Mexborough in South Yorkshire?

Thanks for the Supplement from the London Gazette - that was my next port of call...

Again, they are always useful for research purposes :)

Now the next question is, do you know the history of the Royal Marine Commandos and when they were actually formed?

Nick




Hi Cat,

Ermm, I'm ex-RAF :D

Well if your dad says your granddad was a 'Royal' then it certainly makes sense - especially as you know he was buried at Chatham.

Do you know what your GF looked like? Do you have any photos? if 'no' to either question then the photo in the Gallery isn't going to help you! :D
It is possible he was in X Troop at one stage but if he was Acting Quartermaster Sgt then he's have been in the HQ Troop at that stage...
However, no matter what Troop he was in, or indeed what appointment he held, his primary duty was that of a commando - an elite fighting soldier/marine - any other position/appointment was considered as a 'secondary duty'.

:)

Nick

Hands off Bill, Albert Skeates was No.5 Cdo... :D

This is mine - especially as I'm the one who found him and got his record in CWGC amended... :D :wink:

Seriously though, we are looking for a bronze/brass plaque measuring 4" x 12" mounted on a flint & mortar wall, around the Dover area!
As far as we know, as well as Albert Skeates, there are two other names on it...


Nick
Hi Cat,

So to answer your last question first! :D
I wouldn't worry too much about which troop he was in - it was common for them to move from one troop to another, within the Commando unit, especially on promotion.
The idea is that if someone was to get promoted and remain with his friends and contemporaries in the same troop, it may be 'difficult' for him to, overnight, turn into the guy who gives the orders and sends his best friend 'over the top' to, what could be, certain death!
Move him into a different troop, within the Unit, where he is not with his closest friends and it saves any awkwardness and/or putting the newly promoted person in a difficult position.

This still holds true within the Armed Forces these days...

So, a RM Commando (Unit) was organised along War Establishment lines conforming to those Commando (Units) already raised by the Army.

This consisted of the Cdo HQ, Signal Section, Admin Section, five fighting troops [A, B, X, Y and Z] ? named after the big gun turrets on capital ships ? plus a Heavy Weapons Troop [S Troop].
The nominal strength of a fighting troop was three officers and sixty five other ranks.
Each troop contained two sections, each further divided into two sub-sections.
The Heavy Weapons Troop had two officers and forty other ranks, armed with two Vickers machine-guns and two 3-inch mortars. (These weapons were doubled in number after the D-Day landings).

I have attached a graphic of a Commando Unit which should make things clearer - for a Royal Marine Commando unit, just change the Troop numbers to the letters A, B, X, Y, Z & S...

So applying to the MoD - as long as you enter his full name and Date of Birth on the second of the two forms I sent ( Search Document Application Pt 2 - Royal Navy/Royal Marine Specific) then you don't have to worry about the rest - in fact I wouldn't include the service number you've got from FWR - in case that isn't your grandfather. :?

Send that, together with the Next of Kin form, the copy of his Death Cert and the £30 fee to the address on the form.

As I said, the MoD are THE ONLY custodians of WWII Service Records, so although you have found five J. T. Lunds on the FWR, the MoD may have many, many more! :shock:

The FWR, and other online sites of that ilk, only have information that has been given to them - unwittingly, by people like yourselves who are conducting searches.
These sites do not have access to the MoD records...


Once you've got your grandfather's records back from MoD then we have a foundation to build on... :wink:

Nick

Hi Eddie,

Welcome to the CVA Website & Forum.
Since you mentioned the plaque I have alerted Phil Eyden who lives in the Dover area and has helped me finfing out information regarding your grandfather in the past. If anyone can find the plaque, Phil can... (no pressure Phil!)
We have also posted on a local history group.

Fingers crossed we will locate the plaque...

Nick
Hi Cat,
Welcome to the CVA Website and Forums.

I notice that you have tried the online genealogy site Forces War Records. I do hope that you didn't waste too much money to find out that Forces War Records may not have your grandfather's records!

You see the ONLY custodian for WWII service records is the MoD. Despite all the false claims that Forces War Records make - they do not hold full records. They may have built up a database of names but most of that is taken from the questions you have to fill in on your initial search...
Once you have taken the bait you sign up for a 12 month subscription only to find out they don't have any information - other than what you've told them - and the rest they assume ( ie he would have qualified for the 39 - 45 Star etc)

But the good news is that, as a blood relative, you can apply to the MoD for a scan of your grandfather's original, handwritten service record.

The first thing you need is a death certificate - now I understand that you probably won't have a copy of this, however, you can apply for a copy from this site:

https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

Having got a copy you are now in a position to apply to the MoD.
Hopefully the Death Cert will confirm that the John Lund who died in Chatham is your grandfather, in which case you know he was in the Royal Marines and therefore you need to fill in these two forms and send them off with a one off fee of £30...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711147/20180524-request_service_details_NOK_part1_v6.2.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711157/request_for_service_details_rnrm_application_part2__1_.pdf

The first of these two forms helps you identify who is the next of kin - you will see that it is quite a simple process and, in fact, your father may still work out to be Next of Kin...

As for the rest, I would wait until you've got the service records when you've got some positive information to work on. Once you've got these foundations you can build up your search and come up with definite answers to your questions.

In the meantime, if we can help you in any matter, please add to this thread and we'll do our best to help...

Good luck,

Nick


Amanda,

Thank you - I have emailed you...

Nick


Hi Jennifer,

Welcome to the CVA Website and Forums and thank you for contacting us. I'm so sorry to hear of you recent bereavement - I know this must be a difficult time for you especially the sorting out of family artifacts and the memories they hold.
Fire away with any questions you may have - we will try and answer as many as we can or, failing that, hopefully steer you in the direction of those who can...

We would welcome any photos - especially those taken by your father and/or his friends and colleagues as the less formal, relaxed photos tell a far better story than some of the stiff formal, professionally photographed groups (although we always welcome them as well).

If you can scan the photos and send them electronically (email, DropBox etc.) that would be great, if that isn't possible, you could send them by mail and I can scan and return them.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Nick

yes - unfortunately we don't know their names!

Nick
Helena,

I have added his name to the photo.
Looking at the group photo you sent in, and are now using as an avatar, there was a couple of faces I thought I recognised.
Unfortunately I don't know their names but I have found them in another photo

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/scan0088.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

At least the two guys sat on the far right of this photo can be clearly identified as being on the group photo with your grandpa...


Nick

Helena,

Although I can't be sure because of the quality of both photos, I do think it is your grandpa...

Nick
 
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