Messages posted by: NIC

Craig,

I forgot to ask if you have any photos of him that we can upload to the Gallery so that he can be remembered alongside his friends and his peers...

Nick

Hi Craig,

Can you just confirm that you're working from his service record - which was obtained from the MoD and should be loose sheets of paper, some around A4 size, some bigger - and not just his 'Soldier's Service & Pay Book (Army Book 64)?

The reason I ask is that you've used the term, 'assuming' when talking about his joining No.3 Cdo, yet his Service Record should give you a definite date?

Nick

Hi Craig,

Did your grandfather have a middle name? And do you know which battalion he joined in the S. Staffs Regiment?

Nick

Greg,
I agree with Pete when he suggests that the note on the back of the photo says 'Section Commanders'...
The guys in the photo are Sgts or Cpls - so the right rank to be in charge of a Section.

Also, looking at the word Commandos/Commanders, the two letters that follow the 'd' are identical to the 'er' of "Germany" and not at all like the 'o' in "Section" - so I think it is Commanders.

Nick

Hi Alan,

Alan Orton wrote:Purely a shot in the dark but could they possibly be covering up shoulder titles?

My only thought about that theory is why George Capper would be wearing a different colour and in what appears to be a studio portrait...

Nick

Hi Bob,

I have already uploaded your photo of Tom to the No.11 Cdo album in the Gallery - the photo of him with the Black Hackle was good enough for me - scroll down the page, click on the thumbnail to open then click again to enlarge the image...

I have also added him to the No.11 Cdo nominal roll...

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/11/?g2_page=3

http://www.commandoveterans.org/11CommandoNomRollP-Z

Do you have any other photos of him and his commando pals at all? These are very useful for research and quite often people will find their commando relative on these casual group shots...

Nick

With regard to the coloured strip of cloth on Thomas' epaulette, given that the photo was taken in 1941 the early days of the Commandos, I would hazard a guess that it signifies the troop he belonged to...
The cloth strip is very dark/black which suggests, to me, that it was either red or black!

As a photographer in the RAF, I was taught about photographic emulsions and learned about Orthochromatic black & white film emulsions, which were red sensitive, and Panchromatic black and white films, which were sensitive to all colours.

Orthochromatic films were still very much in use in the 30s and 40s and because of the film's sensitivities, any thing red photographed would turn out very dark/almost black!

This gave the Movie industry a problem with actresses who wore bright red lipstick which was in vogue at the time - the result was it looked as if they had black lips - so the answer was to make them wear blue lipstick, this gave a much paler shade of grey which was far more acceptable...

For comparison take a look at the photo of George Capper (see link below)
George is also wearing a strip on his epaulette but his is a much lighter shade of grey - especially when compared to his hackle ( Thomas' strip is the same shade as his hackle!).

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/11/Scan0002.tif.html

Nick

Hi Bob,

Here is the link to No.11 Cdo on THIS website...

http://www.commandoveterans.org/11Commando

Once there, the red text are links to other items of interest regarding No.11 Cdo...

Nick

Hi Kelvin,

Those are great photos but, as you presumed, they were taken after your dad had returned to his parent regiment, The Hampshire Regiment. You'll notice that on the portrait of him on his own, he is wearing all the ribbons for the medals he would have earned during the War some of which wouldn't have been issued until the War ended!

The oak tree shoulder patch is the formation patch of the 46th Infantry Division...

The 1/4th, 2/4th and 5th (Hants) Battalions were formed into the 128th ?Hampshire? Brigade, part of the 43rd (Wessex) Division. However, January 1943: the Brigade left the 43rd Division and joined the 46th (North Midland and West Riding) Division

To apply to the MoD you'll need these two forms.
Fill out as much detail as you can but, in essence, all you need is his full name and date of birth! It will cost a, one off, payment of £30 unless your mother is still with us then, if she signs the NoK consent, the fee is waived.
If you don't have his death certificate then that can also be obtained from the Gov.UK site...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711147/20180524-request_service_details_NOK_part1_v6.2.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/545060/request_for_service_details_army_application_part2_1_.pdf

For copy of Death Cert.

https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

If you have any problems please don't hesitate to ask for help...

Nick

Hi Kevin,

Kevin wrote:Service Number between 721,001 and 1,842,000 ~ Royal Artillery (Field Branch, Coast Defence and Antiaircraft Branch).
Kevin

The series of regimental numbers you've quoted only have 7 digits; however, Leslie Fosberry's number has 8 digits which means he joined up to the General Service Corps (14200001 - 15000000) and was then posted to his parent regiment...

Nick

Hi Kelvin,

The answer to your question is quite simple. When your father, Leslie K. Fosberry, enlisted, he joined the Hampshire Regiment - which was probably his local regiment.
He then saw a notice asking for volunteers for 'special duties'. He put his name forward and that was the first step to him becoming a commando...

The Commandos were first formed in 1940 on Churchill's initiative, they were made up from individual volunteers from every regiment and Corps in the British Army.
Each Commando was an 'irregular' unit and those who volunteered to serve in them were only on temporary duty/on loan from their parent regiments - and could be RTU'd (Returned To Unit) at any time. To commandos that was the ultimate punishment!
Individual commandos wore their own regimental cap badge in their berets (with the exception of No.2 Commando who, against regulations, designed & fashioned their own unique cap badge - from canteen cutlery).
You'll note that in the photo of your dad that he is wearing the Hampshire Regt cap badge on his green beret...

The General Staff and Field Regiments, well entrenched in the traditional regimental ways, did not approve of these irregular units, especially when they found that, not only were the regiments losing their best men, but the parent regiments were still expected to be responsible to pay & equip each individual commando soldier.
As irregular units, the Commandos had no Garrison town, no permanent Regimental HQ, no barracks and no parade squares. Temporary HQs would be set up in large houses or hotels in seaside towns and officers and other ranks were given an extra daily allowance so they could billet in the houses of local families. This temporary nature meant that a Commando Unit could, and would, ?up sticks? at very short notice and move on to another town to use as a base.

In 1942 Churchill wanted more Commando Units and so Royal Marine Commandos were formed. A number of RM Battalions were converted to become RM Cdo units.

28 October 1945 the War Office announced that the Army Commandos were to be disbanded - the RMs were to take over the Commando Role.

Disbandment meant that many of the volunteers returned to their 'parent' regiment - in your father's case, The Hampshire Regiment - though some chose to volunteer for the Paras...

To get a better idea of his service from joining up to demob, I'd recommend that you apply to the MoD for his service records - the MoD are the ONLY custodians of WWII Service Records, despite the spurious claims of some online genealogy sites...
Should you want to pursue this I can happily point you in the right direction...

We do have your father listed in our Nominal Rolls but, in the interest of accuracy, do you have his service number - it should be on the documents you have of his...

Nick

That's a great find Pete, very detailed and a good read...

Nick

Hi Jason,

Welcome to the Website & Forum...

At the moment I can't give you a date when the Iceland 'camp' closed, but here is a document, I put together, which will give people who don't know about the RM Training Group (Wales) camps some background information.

Nick

Bill,
Understand. Will put a post up for you and see what that brings...

Nick

Hi Paul,

I have liaised with John Leven - Gordon's elder brother - but, unfortunately, information and photos of John Lang are very scarce.
The only known photo of John Lang, as an adult, is the one of him walking with a lady, whom is presumed to be his aunt, in Bridlington. It is assumed that John was on leave from the Army.

If, however, anymore photos of John Lang and his No.11 Cdo colleagues turn up, I will upload them and let you know...

Thanks for sharing the photo of Sgt Burton's gravestone with us, I have uploaded it to the Middle East sub-Album in the WW2 Graves...

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/Commando+War+Graves+Memorials+and+Plaques/graves/sidon/

Nick