Messages posted by: NIC

The Landing Craft Flak (LCF) was a conversion of the Landing Craft (Tank) LCT that was intended to give anti-aircraft support to the landing. They were first used in the Dieppe Raid early in 1942. The ramp was welded shut, and a deck built on top of the Tank deck. They were equipped with several light anti-aircraft guns - a typical fitting was eight 20 mm Oerlikons and four Ordnance QF 2-pounder (or 2 pounder pom poms) - and had a crew of 60.
On British examples, the operation of the craft was the responsibility of RN crew and the guns were manned by Royal Marines. They carried two naval officers and two Marine officers.

Nick

Derrick,

I don't know whether you seen this or not but it is all about LC(F) 38 and your father is listed on it...

http://www.wigard.nl/WO2/Infatuate/Wilks/index.html

Nick

DerrickParsons wrote:

My understanding is that RM's manned the guns on LCFs and those in the RN did the sailing.

That's correct, but you must appreciate that there were Royal Marines and Royal Marine Commandos and RM Commandos did not man any guns on board any sea craft...

Do you have any photos of him in uniform from that era - there may be clues there...

Nick

Hi Derrick

DerrickParsons wrote:I believe that to be the case. The LCFs were crewed by naval personnel for the actual 'sailing' and the marines manned the various guns.

Can I confirm that you're saying he was in 41 RM Cdo on D-Day and on LCF 38, as a Gunner, at Walcheren?

It just that if he was in the RM Commandos then he wouldn't have served on board any ship/craft...

It is a common misconception that all Royal Marines were Royal Marine Commandos - as they are today - but this was not the case.
Prior to 1942, when the first RM Commando was formed, the RMs were not commandos. They had many roles including Artillery, Infantry and Light Infantry but not Commandos...

In 1942, Churchill suggested that the country needed more Commando Units to compliment the Army Commandos that had been formed in 1940. He turned to the Royal Marines to fulfil that role.

The first RM Commando was formed , like the Army Commandos, from volunteers. After this eight other RM Units were formed by converting whole RM Infantry Battalions to make a total of nine RM Commandos (40 RM Cdo to 48 RM Cdo inclusive)
When berets were introduced to The Royal Marines, in July 1943, they were issued with navy blue berets with a red 'tomb' behind the cap badge.
In August 1943, the green beret was issued to RM Commandos in lieu of the RM blue beret.

At the end of the War, the Army Commandos were disbanded and the Commando role was given to the Royal Marines. They now started to train new recruits and career marines as commandos and it wasn't until 1964 that the whole of the Royal Marine Corps were commando trained and entitled to wear the green beret - as they do today.

So is it possible that your father was a RM gunner on the Landing Craft that took 41 RM Cdo in to the beaches on D-Day; and then on LCF 38 at Walcheren?

The only other possibility for him to have been both a commando and then a crew member on LCF 38 was if he was posted out of the RM Commandos.

It really is a shame that the information in RM Service Records is always so scant...

Nick

Hi Steve

SteveHarder wrote:
I know my Mother has a number of wartime photographs of him, so I will have to see if I can get hold of them and perhaps you might want to add them to your records

Yes please, we always welcome photos - mainly because they tell a story, but also because others may see a photo that includes their commando relative that they've never seen before. This happened only yesterday evening when I was 'chatting' with two people on the CVA Facebook page and when they told me their father's name I showed them three photos of their father that we have here in the Gallery, that they hadn't seen before...

Also, do you have any other details about your grandfather such as his parent regiment and his service number - I would like to add them to his entry in our Nominal Roll...

If not, your family can apply to the MoD for his service Records - I can point you in the right direction if you need me to...

Nick

Hi James,

Just a bit of background information on Bombardment Units just in case you didn't already know...

The COBU [Combined Operations Bombardment Unit] was formed in 1941 to provide an organisation that could replace the support of the field artillery with the support of naval guns. The organisation was part of Combined Operations and came under the command of a Colonel, who was an adviser to CCO [Commander Combined Operations].
Each COBU was commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel who was on the staff of the Naval Commander of a Task Force and assisted the Senior Artillery Officer with fireplanning.

Naval bombardment was controlled through the COBU. The unit was commanded by the CBLO [Chief Bombardment Liaison Officer] - a Lieutenant Colonel in the Royal Artillery - and consisted of a small HQ and three Bombardment Troops.
Each troop was designed to provide observation of fire on a divisional front, and consisted of 1x Major, 15x Captains, 7x NCOs and 21x RN Signals Ratings attached.

A Bombardment Troop was responsible for the shore observation of naval gunfire, normally on a front of one division.
It is commanded by a Major RA as SBLO [Senior Bombardment Liaison Officer] and includes 1x SOB [Staff Officer Bombardment], 7x FOBs [Forward Observers Bombardment], 7x BLOs [Bombardment Liaison Officers], together with NCOs and RN communications ratings.

The SBLO was on the staff of the Naval Force Commander on the Divisional Commander's level. He would embark with the Naval and Military Commanders in the LSH [Landing Ship Headquarters]. He assisted the CRA [Commander Royal Artillery] in the coordination of the fire plan as affecting the ships and craft detailed to support the division.
The SBLO was responsible for:
1. Commanding and administering his troop.
2. Organising initial attachment of FOB to assaulting battalions and ensuring that BLOs are embarked in their allotted ships.
3.Assisting the commander, Royal Artillery, while he is afloat, and the Naval Force Gunnery Officer, in co-ordinating the divisional fire plan.
4.Working in the Combined Support Control Room of the LSH(L) during the assault and maintaining close liaison with Divisional HQ after it has landed,through his second in command, the SOB.

The SOB (Captain, RA) was the second in command of the Bombardment Troop.In an operation he was embarked in the LSH(L) as Assistant to the SBLO. When the division goes ashore he was attached to the Commander, Royal Artillery, as his adviser on the suitability of targets for the various types of ships available to give supporting fire. He also controls all FOBs on the divisional front by means of their spotting frequencies, issuing fresh orders for attachment or detachment according to the situation.

The BLO (Captain, RA) was embarked in each bombarding ship or attached to groups of bombarding craft. He was responsible for interpreting the orders and observations received from the FOB [Forward Observer Bombardment]and advising the Naval Gunnery Officer on all military matters including the safety of friendly troops,

The FOB was specially trained to observe naval gunfire on shore targets. He asks BCHQ [Bombardment Control Headquarters] for the allocation of a bombarding ship, calls for fire to meet the needs of the army formation or unit to which he is attached, and observes the fall of shot. He also reports frequently the tactical situation ashore, particularly the positions of friendly forward troops.

Nick

Clare,

yes please - both Pete and I can take a look...

Nick

Clare

The use of canoes could point to it being a COPP (Combined Operations Pilotage Parties) mission - that would also explain RN Commandos.. But they wouldn't normally be sent out to take prisoners - not in a canoe...

Nick

Clare,

Parts of your account don't fit in with any of the Hardtack raids - your account mentions canoes but as far as I know it was Dories that were used for the Hardtacks; your man says they were RN Commandos - Hardtacks were all conducted by Army Commandos, and a smattering of SBS ( an Army Unit is those days)...

The use of canoes could point to it being a COPP (Combined Operations Pilotage Parties) mission - that would also explain RN Commandos...
We'll have to do a bit of homework on this one...

Nick

Pete,

There were so many Op Hardtacks over a very short period it's hard to determine which one fits the bill...
As far as I know there was no MM awarded on Hardtack 28 - so it could be Hardtack 4...

Nick

Hi Clare,

It certainly has similarities to 'Op Hardtack 28' - Dec 1943.
The person who received fatal injuries was Captain Phillip Ayton, A&S Highlanders & SBS.

Nick

Hi Steve,
Thank you for contacting us and letting us know about your grandfather.
I will certainly add him to our No.6 Commando Nominal Roll.

Just so you know, there was never a definitive nominal roll for The Commandos so the ones we have on this Website are all our own work - this has taken a lot of work and research for a couple of people in their spare time.

We acknowledge there will be mistakes and omissions but we are still very proud of our achievements thus far and rely on people like you adding to our nominal rolls - because we strongly believe they all deserve to be remembered... But, at the same time, we are very careful not to 'poach' information from other sites - unless we have permission. Of course this does mean that we sometimes miss out on information but we are often rewarded when we are still given information - as you have today...

There are a good many books on the Commandos in general and quite a few on a few specific Commando Units; however, the only book I know that was published about No.6 Commando. is:
'VI Commando, July 1940-November 1945, Short History of No.6 Commando' published by Gale and Polden in 1946.

Nick

Well done Rick.

Just a thought - have you registered these plaques on the War Memorials Register?

https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials

Nick

Hi Adam,

I can tell you that our sources of information, in Victor's case, were The Commando Association Newsletters.

CA Newsletter No.9 Sept 1949 announced that members experiencing troubles in the garden should note that Pte. V T Browne, now Head Gardener at West Wratting Park Nurseries, Cambs, offers free advise on all gardening problems.

CA Newsletter No.86 March 1988 announced the recent death of Pte Victor T Browne, No.1 Cdo, of Stamford, Lincs.

May I ask what your interest in Victor Browne is? Are you a relative - if so, do you have any photos of him that you'd be prepared to share with us?

Regards,

Nick

Darren,

It is indeed a small world and, as you know, the Isle of Wight has strong connections with the Commandos and, not least, No.5 Commando.

No.5 spent a few months on the Island training and based it's HQ at the Upper Chine School in Shanklin. Other troops were based in Ventnor - sadly the location of a tragic accident involving a hand grenade.

During the 1970s my mother moved to the Island and took up a position as the Matron in the Upper Chine School - oblivious to it's connection to No.5 Cdo.
I have also learned, many years later, that No.5 Commando held many annual reunions in Shanklin.

My mother moved back to the Island in April and resides in Broadway - hence my visit on Friday last...

Nick