Messages posted by: Alan Orton

Combined Ops badges didn't come out until summer 42 well past the date of Layforces disbandment, they had no Commando insignia. Shoulder titles and patches or badges came later. There are images of 11 on this site, go to main menu head for gallery look into Commandos WW2 and 11 are on there. As far as I know shoulder titles in 1940 were discouraged for security reasons but some did wear them, for a tombstone a Black Hackle would be appropriate.
Alan.

Nothing at all, they would have been wearing the KD shirt so all one would have on them were rank chevrons.
Alan.

11 (Scottish) Commando wore no insignia, badges or flashes on their uniform all they had was a Black Hackle on the Tam o Shanters.

SA Abbott Gnr 970064.

A Holden Gnr (Possibly TT Holden 970131).

JF Kearney Gnr 970050 - POW - Operation Flipper.

JA Reynolds Gnr 970558.

MRN Wood Gnr 970158.

Their RA Attestations can be found on Find my Past apart from Holden. Their RA Unit was 57th (Newfoundland) Heavy Regiment Royal Artillery.

In 11 (Scottish) Commando they all served in 1 Troop, i believe around 20 volunteered but only 5 made the grade.

In Cyprus they were stationed with 6 Troop at Larnaca and moved to Salamis with 10 Troop after 6 weeks ( May and June) 1941.

1 Troop were part of Y Party and were the right hand troop when landing on C Beach in Syria during Operation Exporter and were with HQ Troop, their officers were Gerald Bryan A Section and B Section were led by Alistair Coode, they saw quite a bit of fighting there.

Kearney was the only one of the above on Operation Flipper the rest were returned to the UK on Layforces disbandment and as far as i know all survived the war. Kearney was part of 1 Detachment and they were to go to the supposed HQ, he was part of the covering party along with Varney, Hughes and Heavysides, oncde they withdrew to the beach and Laycock gave the order to make their own way out he along with Bogle, Brodie, Coultread, Dunn, Heavysides and Murray headed south towards Mekili where courtesy of some previous action with the LRDG they were alert and ended up in the bag.

Whats interesting is that Laycock reported that there were no signallers in the party which was not strictly true, there were two and also Kearney himself was a trained RA signaller.

Hope this wil be of some use.

Alan.

As a POW they were initially held in a temporary camp just outside of Tobruk, the following day they were taken to Benghazi where they boarded a freighter which had a large hole in it from a recent bombing raid. They left for Taranto via the coast of Crete and Greece to avoid submarines, they sailed through the Corinth Canal before finally reaching Taranto. From here they transported to Bari and then to Porto San Giorgio before finally ending up in a camp bear to the Swiss border.

Prior to Operation Agreement around 100 men and three officers drawn from the ranks of the B Company 11 RMB and took part in an operation at the island of Kupho Nisi just off the south eastern coast of Crete and was believed to house a radar station which as it turned out was empty. The operation was April 15th 194242 and although a success in parts was deemed little more than a training exercise by Lt. Col. E.H.M. Unwin.

On arrival in the ME MNBDO 1 was due to go to Crete, 11 RMB couyld not get there in time, MNBDO 1 was then sent to the FE but the 11th remained in Palestine and trained. They also took part in training on the Great Bitter Lake. the second part of 1941 they were on guard duties as the garrison battalion at Morscar Barracks and then guarding oil facilities at Haifa.

Although trained in amphibious landings the next proposed operation for the Battalion was a raid on Sollum Pass, rehersals took place but it came to nothing as eventually it was cancelled due to lack of landing craft.

Training was undertaken in Palestine and Cyprus and the Royal Egyptian Yacht Club in Alexandria. The practice landings held on Cyprus were found to have been harrowing due to lack of suitable landing craft. Further rehersas took place off Cyprus leaving Haifa but this led to further criticism's but the Marines performed well

For Operation Agreement the battalion boarded ship at Haifa at 2100 hrs on the 11th September and set sail at 0600 hrs the following day reaching Alexandria at 2000 hrs. They sailed for Tobruk after a briefing at 0500 hrs on the 13th four hours later they were fully briefed stating that this was not an exercise. At 1900 hrs weapons were tested and at 0157 hrs on the 14th they received the code word, not allowed to use the word but it was the same as Guy Gibsons dog. The rest is history as they say.

Below is a brief outline of what happened drawn from 'The Rhodes to Nowhere'.

In October 1940 plans had been made for a raid on Tobruk hopefully to be carried out the following spring, Operation Waylay which would employ Special Service troops in a seaward landing in four places, Party A was to land at Mengae-el-Merkah about mile and a quarter west of Tobruk, head inland and to destroy fuel supplies north of the airfield and secondly if possible, to destroy an ammunition dump and signals station. Party B would land at the same place and was to destroy oil and fuel installations to the east of the Naval barracks with their secondary target the airfield.

Party C were to land at either Mersa-Abd-Rabba or Mersa Mrara and attack the coastal defences to the north and to tackle any fuel depots they came across. Party D was to land at Mersa Mrura and make for Tobruk itself and cause as much trouble and mischief as they could, they were to attack the wireless and power stations, the telephone exchange and the barracks.

Parties A, B and C would consist of one company of troops with an attached party of Royal Engineers, Party D would comprise of just one company.
To ensure that they would have the element of surprise there would be no Naval bombardment prior to landing and no bombing by the R.A.F. although it was planned to bomb the area once the troops had been withdrawn.

Nothing came of the plan and it was soon to be forgotten about.

'The Tobruk garrison includes about 1 Italian infantry brigade and numerous staff of the c.a. About 1000 German soldiers amassed 24 miles east of Tobruk but probably that they do not have the necessary means of transport to immediately take action. However, it must be counted that these troops may intervene later. Tobruk?s artillery defense includes 8 coastal pieces, 48 pieces c.a. heavy and 85 pieces c.a. light. It is assumed that 30 Macchi 200 are located in Tobruk and El Adem airports. Some 88 and ME 110 as well as 24 Italian torpedo bombers must be located in Derna. It must be counted that a group of 30 JU 87s from Sidi Barrani may intervene within an hour. The intervention of a second group is likely within 3 hours. JU 1 from Crete can intervene within 1 ½ hours. Within a few hours 130 enemy planes can take action. The action will be initiated by an airstrike against Tobruk on the D1/D2 night. [13/14th September]?.

?occupation of Tobruk for about 24 hours in order to perform the total destruction of the port facilities and anchorage units as well as to paralyze for a long time the efficiency of Tobruk as a port and supply base. In case of favourable developments in regard to the general situation instead of returning by sea, Forces A-B-C are to head eastwards by land, operating in correlation with Force X further paralyzing the supply line towards the front (and possibly acting on the back of our deployment during the enemy offensive at Alamein?.

'All forces are expected to leave Tobruk the evening after landing, returning-in-principle by sea, to the units of Forces A and C, and to the ten captured motor raft In the event of complete success, some of the forces will have to return by land, on captured vehicles, operating ? in connection with Force X ? against enemy lines of communication. Any missing men will be picked up three nights later by submarine at Marsa Scegga near Bardia'.

'At the beach two boats, these boats were a real 'Heath Robinson' affair, knocked up with a steel frame wood and canvas, most had no motors and had to be towed in unloaded their complement of Marines under the direction of Lt. MacDonald but by now the enemy fully aware that something was happening swept the sea with search lights and it now became apparent that the forces from the sea would not be able to affect a landing and with the coming of first light all attempts to do so was abandoned'.

'The boats were pretty much dumb lighters with only one having communication with her mother ship which left Unwin without any means of making contact and had to return without making a landing. It was said that as these boats would have one and only one outing there was no need to go to any expense in their manufacture, this lack of expense would be more expensive to those that took part in the operation'

'For those that did make the run in they faced a pretty torrid time getting a shore with some men drowning in the process, they were met with artillery, mortar and machine gun fire from the defenders. These Italians put up a fine show in pretty much stopping Force A in their tracks and those that did make a shore were a mixed bunch of Marines and artillery men along with a few engineers, their prospects were not good and eventually were forced to attempt a breakout, after entering a wadi they opened fire on some tents, it was just one of those things that goes wrong in the fog of war, ?la guerra e guerra? or rather ?war is war?. The tented camp was an Italian hospital facility but appears not to have been shown as one and casualties were inflicted.
After they had realised their mistake in opening fire the survivors made their way to another wadi and from here, they realised that there would be no other option available to them but to surrender which they finally did bringing an end to their part in the current fiasco'.

Hope this may be of interest.

Alan.

Looks like he enlisted during 1930 and served with 4/7 Dragoon Guards, discharged 10/9/36. Recalled and finally Z Reserve 30.1.46.

Born Pontefract 1913, mothers maiden name Farrar. Died Rotheram 1975.

Hi Joe,

No connection, the operation is recorded in the book SBS in World War 2 by G B Courtney.

Alan.

HM Sub Walney ; Holden-Wjite, Cpl's D C Ellis, Sidlow, Wright, Blewett, Loadsby and Sgt. J Embelin.

HM Sub Harland ; JCC Pagnam, Lt. E J A Lunn, Sgt. A Milne and Cpl. L Bates.

After the op the survivors had to make their own passage home via Gibraltar and ended up on the Ettrick which torpedoed and they returned to Gib finally making it home via a USAAF Liberator.

Alan.

Hello Kevin,

The bulk of SSD I made it to China and then back to India, SSD II though was pretty much lost through enemy action, ambushes by Chinese troops, illness and disease and other things, only a few survived. I believe what you say about being disbanded for ill discipline was actually a unit raised locally from India and Burma and not from SSD I or II.

Alan.

Hello Carl,

Below is a bit i knocked up for myself tracing Layforce members who served withy Mission 204.

The volunteers for the Far East from the now defunct Layforce were shipped out in two drafts, the bulk went first of around one-hundred men whilst the second draft went under Capt. Robinson from the Gordons and 11(Scottish) Commando sailed on the S.S. Queen Elizabeth from Suez to Tricomalee in Ceylon and then to Calcutta and then to Rangoon in Burma via a French tramp steamer where they spent several days at the barracks of the Gloucestershire Regt. Before a move to Mandalay and finally to the Bush Warfare School at Maymyo codenamed by London as Chibase arriving in September under the command of Paul Meade of the F.F.R.?s.

Once they had arrived amidst what was thought to be great secrecy, they learnt from Tokyo Radio of their arrival.

This may be of some interest to you.

http://www.kaiserscross.com

Alan.

Hello Carl,

Service numbers didn't change like they did in the previous war.

Whats interesting is that the date of leaving UK is the date Layforce or Force Z as it was known then left for the ME. There were Royal Fusiliers in 7 Commando, i'm not saying he was in this unit but it's possible, secondly is the date for Burma, a second draft from the ME for Mission 204 left round about then and China in May 42 looks like this may well have been the case.

His service number is from the Royal Fusiliers but i have found a document showing him to be Royal Engineers.

Hi Robbie, hope this will be of some use.

Hardtack 11.

24th December/25th December and 26th December/27th December 1943.

No.?s 1 & No. 8 (French) Troops, 10 (IA) Commando.

2 Special Boat Section.

Pointe de Gravelines.

A reconnaissance of beaches and sand dunes at Gravelines under the command of WO 1 Pierre Adonis Louis Wallerand, the party left Dover on MTB 25 and were able to get to the beach and make a landing, but the small dory was swamped and water got into the engine causing it to stop, the crew of the Special Boat Section, Sgt. John Park attached from 4 Commando and his signaller Cpl. Jack Jones (Vladimir Kottka) of 3 (X) Troop paddled it back to the MTB sending the codeword ?Donkey? meaning they were in a fix and the engine had stopped, at the other end of the signal this was received as ?Sunk?. Getting back to the MTB they were able to drain the engine and restart it before returning to the beach with a further signaller, Chapman.

In the meantime Wallerand, Navrault and Meunier set out to reconnoitre the minefield whilst Caron, Medec and Pourcelot took up defensive positions to give cover if required.

In the early hours a small German foot patrol passed along the beach but the Commandos remained unseen.

Once the reconnaissance was completed they returned to the beach and the Dory and tried to re-embark but a swell over turned the boat rendering it useless as the engine had been immersed in water yet again.

Park and Wallerand attempted to use grapnel anchors to pull the boat away from the beach before Wallerand attempted to swim to the MTB, both he and John Park were never seen again and both were presumed to have drowned. .

I have 3 WO 417 files for Chapman 1/ reporting him missing 25/12/43. 2/ Confirming him POW in German hands and 3/ Now longer POW dated 1945.

Alan.

Pte. Arthur Ernest Hamper 6286695 The Buffs (1/Royal East Kent Regiment) 50 Me Commando.

Pte. Arthur Hamper of the East Kents was taken prisoner during Operation Abstention, the attempt to capture the Dodecanese island of Kastelorizo and ended up in Stalag IVF at Hartmannsdorf bei Chemnitz, Saxony in Germany, he was previously recorded to have been in P.G. 102 an Italian camp at L?Aquilla near the Apenine Mountains. On the 25th June 1944 he was shot by the Germans for an escape attempt and rebellion. He is today buried in the Berlin 1939-1945 War Cemetery plot 10.Z.7.

Alan.

On the 7th April recorded in 7 Commando's War Diary is the following entry;

'Members of the Battalion Liaison Section were interviewed by the Bde. I.O., Lt. Waugh, and Ptes Pattison, Mander, Close and P.S.M. Harper were accepted for the Bde. Intelligence Section.'

It's quite possible this relates to Pte W.W. Pattison.

C.C. Close was posted missing on Crete 2 June 1941 and remained a POW until the wars end.

Pipe Sergeant Major Harper was due to be posted away from 7 Commando according to their Provisional Establishment dated 22nd March 1941 he was deemed over strength.

Hope this will be of some use.

Kind regards,

Alan.