Messages posted by: Alan Orton

Hi Geoff,
thankfully No.11 do get talked about quite a bit i was really pleased to find this site and see the info available on not only No.11 but all the other Commandos, i've learned a considerable amount about this Commando from here and will always be grateful for the amount of hard work put in by the Members. As my dad rarely spoke about the war i was left with finding things out for my self mainly from books but now being able to use this site and the combined ops site i've been able to fill in quite a lot of blank spaces. The War Diary for No.11 is another interesting piece i have a copy from the start until August 1941 when dad was posted its a bit hard to decypher the writing at times but well worth getting a copy. Not sure about anecdote's though only one i know of is what was chalked on one of the landing ships which relates to all of Layforce "Never have so many been ******** about by so few". I do remember dad saying that Lt. Col. Pedder landed wearing service cap, Sam Browne belt and waving a sword, but this turned out to be apparantly a swagger stick. Just out of curiosity do you know what your fathers parent regiment was?
Regards,
Alan.

Hi Geoff,
heavy seas prevented some of those involved in Operation Flipper from landing from the submarine. There is a fine narrative of this operation on the www.combiniedops.com web site, also worth checking out is the Black Hackle file on the same site. My dad was in No.11 and served in No.6 Troop before being posted to "L" Detachment. It's nice to know that there is a lot of new interest in this Commando.
Regards,
Alan Orton.

Thanks for the info regarding the N.A. looks like a trip south is in order.

Sorry for the late reply, my dad was captured in the Middle East in November 41 and was on the Sebastiano Venier when it was torpedoed off the Greek coast in December and from a web site i was able to find out that the survivors were taken to Methoni in Greece. He was a tad unlucky though he was able to stay at liberty for a while after he'd got off the stricken boat and was eventually turned in by a Greek who he said got a reward for it, this was as my dad told me the equivalent of a tanner!
He did say that he was in three camps in Italy and escaped from them all only to be recaptured each time, once they went under the wire and the last time they just walked out as the guards had gone i expect that this was the time of the armistice, on this occasion they stayed free for some time and from what i can recall he said that they were picked up by some German Paratroopers who were on a anti partisan hunt. They had been warned by a friendly Italian who didn't know the word for Parachutist and gestered with his hand to try to show them what he meant shouting "Tedeschi! Tedeschi!" by the time they cottoned on it was too late and they were in the bag again.
He only spoke of German camps once and that was on the 50th anniversary of the bombing of Dresden where he said he was working on an Arbeits Kommando and was lucky to survive, they also had to help clear the damage up.
His service record shows that he was eventually repatriated to England in September of 1945. I was told by my brother that they spent the time from May to September walking around Czechoslovakia, and i clearly remember him saying that he and an American walked out of the camp just before the Russians came. We had a Xmas card off the American until the early 80's.
Anyway before i waffle on too much are the records available on line? If so do you know the Record No. as i've never been able to get my head round the N.A.
Regards,
Alan.

Hi Sam,
one thing for sure is you are quite right i don't think anybody really does know who was on the Squatter op. and certainly there is no real consistency in the accounts published One article i have shows Hill as being left out of the op. I did check the P.O.W. list on ancestory and this does indeed show him to have been taken prisoner and as i haven't seen him on any list for the other op's this pretty much puts him as taking part. My records had only got him listed without a christian name so at least i can add that to it. Regarding the other names you mention i would i think go with that they would be Originals but again who can be really sure.
I have a copy of the book you mentioned in the post to me right now so look forward to getting my hands on it.
Thanks for the info in the link it certainly made an interesting read.
Regards,
Alan.

Hi Sam,
i've not read that particular book so i will try to track it down. i've spent years trying to put together what happened to that and the other sticks who didn't return. All i've had to go on is what my dad told me that after they had landed they split up and headed for the r/v and were convinced that they were heading in the wrong direction, but after a few days they spotted some English vehicles and they assumed that they were the advance guard of the Allied Forces but alas they were Italians and so he spent the next 4 years as a p.o.w.
From what i've been able to find out his stick was Stirling and those previously mentioned but there was another pct. as the sticks were made up as follows 9, 11, 11, 12 and 12.
I've managed to work out partial sticks for the others but a lot still eludes me but i have to admit it's good fun trying to work it all out.
Regards,
Alan.

Oh well not to worry thanks for looking anyway,
Regards,
Alan.

Hi John,
i've just seen your message regarding S.Bolland and i have a little bit of info but as my reply is probably 6 months too late you may have the answers already anyway he was in the stick which went with David Stirling they were apparantly known as "Stirlings Guard" and sadly he was lost in action during the drop, as the weather was against them he may have been dragged away on landing. It would appear that this was the first time they had dropped with shovels and it may be that the shroud lines caught in the handle. The shovels were apparantly positioned behind their parachute packs, it could also have been a parachute malfunction or perhapts he landed safely but was unable to find the others of the stick, we will never know to be sure.
The full make up of the stick was as follows,
Captain D. Stirling,
CSM G. Yates,
Sjt. D. R. Tait,
L/Sjt. L.Colquhuon,
L/Cpl. J. Orton,
Pct. S. Bolland,
Pct. E.J. Cockbill,
Pct. F.C. Trenfield.
Hope this will be of use to you,
Regards,
Alan Orton.

Hi Steve,
does the book include Italian Camps?
If it does could you look up my father 2819656, John Orton, Seaforth Highlanders, attached L Detachment. He was taken Prisoner during Operation Squatter in November of 1941.
I have a record of his German Krieggie No. 267098, but know nothing about his time in the Italian Camps.
Kind regards,
Alan Orton

I received some information from Ian McHarg relating to the Troop names and can confirm that 2 Troop was Royal Scots Greys, 4 Troop was Wiltshires, 6 Troop was Seaforths, 8 Troop was Gordons and 10 Troop was Camerons.
Alan.

Hi CameronStuart,
i doubt that this reply will answer your query but i have recently seen a reference to a "Gordon" troop to go along with the "Seaforth" troop, the "Gordon" troop ref. didn't give a no. but mentioned 2 names J V Bryne and D.R. Tait both of whom their parent Regt. was the Gordons and both along with my father J.Orton (Seaforth) went to "L" Detachment. This set me thinking was then the troops named in Army Precedence? The first being the Royal Scots and ending with A and S Highlanders. This then gives you 10 troops, it does fall down though as if this was correct then the Seaforths would have been the 7th but if one troop was an amalgamation of 2 Regts. then this could thus become pheasible, as i said it doesn't answer your query but it could point you in the right direction. I trawelled through the War Diary and found no names given to the troops neither are they mentioned in the Special Forces book but that did give names of most of the Troop Commanders. I can give you this info. if reqd.
Hope this will be of some use to you,
Kind regards,
Alan Orton.