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Hi Phil,
Yes the Trident is a bit confusing...
It was suggested that he was in 116 Infantry Brigade Royal Marines, but the Brigade wasn't formed until 1 January 1945.
However, as I said to you, your father is wearing a Field Service cap and I have a two circulars from the Admiralty one, dated 8 July 43, which states the Blue beret will be issued in lieu of the Field Service cap and the second, dated 20 January 44, which states the Blue Beret has completely and permanently replaced the Field Service cap by 20 Jan 1944...
Pete suggests his unit was 28th Royal Marine Battalion formed in August 1944 - but again the Field Service cap would have been replaced by then...
And you tell us that the photo is date stamped " 21 May 1943 "
So that gives another couple of alternatives -
There was another unit that used the Trident badge in 1943 prior the formation of 28 RM Battalion and 116 Brigade RM.
or
Your dad decided for whatever reason to wear his obsolete Field Service cap for the photo of him and your uncle...
Still more digging to do yet!
Nick
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Hi David,
As Guy suggests, you should apply to the MoD for his service records...
The MoD is the only custodian of WWII service records - so please don't bother wasting you money on commercial online genealogy site such as Forces War Records, Ancestry or Find My Past etc. Despite their claims, they will not have his record.
You will need a copy of his death certificate - if you do not have one you can obtain one from the Gov.Uk website.
You will need either his service number OR his date of birth
You'll need to fill out the two forms (links below)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711147/20180524-request_service_details_NOK_part1_v6.2.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/869588/army_application_part2_final.pdf
And there is a one off fee of £30
Any questions, email. pm or post in this thread...
Nick
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Pete,
That is one photo but with a fold down the centre which makes it appears as two separate photos...
William Boot is the guy on the right of the photo, his right arm, with the Trident badge, is slightly in front of the RN Rating on the left.
Judging by the similarity I'm guessing that they are brothers - I'm sure Phil will confirm this!
Nick
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Hi,
3 Commando Brigade, as a whole, was sent to Hong Kong at the end of hostilities, entering Hong Kong Harbour in September 1945
However, repatriation for demobilisation of certain 'Age and Service Groups' had started mid June 1945 - two months before Japan surrendered - but, in Dec '45 it was announced that the Army 'Age & Service Group' demob would not keep pace with the Royal Marines!
Reinforcements were still arriving from the UK and continued to do so until January 1946.
Nick
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Hi Phil,
Thanks for contacting me - as I said to you, I'm not as au fait with RM Commandos as I am with the Army Commandos, but I'll certainly give you my views...
First of all a little bit of history - which hopefully will make sense as we go along - but forgive me if I'm trying to teach my granny to suck eggs!
The Royal Marines [note I do not mention RM Commandos yet] trace their beginnings to the formation in 1664, under Charles II, of the 'Duke of York and Albany's Maritime Regiment of Foot'.
In 1755 a permanent Marine Corps of 5,000 marines was established and grouped into 50 companies under three divisions: Chatham, Plymouth and Portsmouth. It became the 'Royal Marines' in 1802, by an order of King George III.
In 1855 the Royal Marine Light Infantry (RMLI) was formed, followed by the Royal Marine Artillery (RMA) in 1859. The RMLI and RMA merged in 1923 to form a single Royal Marine Corps...
From 1942 some (not all) Battalions in the RMs were converted to form RM Commando units.
One of your photos shows your father wearing a Field Service cap - which dates this photo to pre 8 July 1943, when His Majesty The King gave his approval for the issue of a blue beret to be worn by Royal Marines...
He is also wearing what appears to be a white lanyard over his right shoulder.
Now as far as I know, the only RM Battalion to wear a white lanyard was 1st RM Battalion as it was formed from members of the Royal Marine Artillery and, as such, was entitled to wear the traditional Artillery white lanyard - the only Marine battalion to be granted the honour by officialdom...
In July 1943, 1st RM Battalion was converted to become 42 RM Commando...
On 14 August 1943 the Admiralty decreed that "all R.M. officers and other ranks serving in Special Service Force (Commandos) will wear a green beret in lieu of the R.M. blue beret".
In November 1943, 42 RM Cdo, together with No.1 Cdo, No.5 Cdo & 44 RM Cdo, were formed into 3 Special Service Brigade and sailed to India and the SEAC (South East Asia Command) where they took part in operations, in Assam & the Arakan and which included amphibious landings down the Burmese coastline including the landings at Myebon and the Battle of Hill 170.
Post war the Brigade (now renamed as 3 Commando Brigade) went on to Hong Kong and the New Territories to carry out Policing Duties.
42 RM Cdo then returned to India to prepare for Operation Zipper - the invasion of British Malaya.
So this may explain your father's connection with India & Burma.
Nick
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Hi Sarah,
Here is the record held by Commonwealth War Grave Commission
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2203074/blake,-albert-henry/
Nick
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Hi Al,
What was the individual's name?
Nick
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Thanks Guy,
No.4 Cdo moved to Ayrshire in late 1940 but were back in the Weymouth area again in '42...
Nick.
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John,
With regards No.4 Cdo in Dorset, what we do know is that in mid-July 1940, No.4 Commando was formed in Weymouth and based its HQ in the requisitioned Pavillion on the pier.
One of the unique features of the new force of Commandos was the prerequisite that each individual - officers and other ranks alike - would be responsible for his own quartering and feeding. All ranks were given a daily 'subsistence' allowance and were expected to live in local 'digs' or billets.
Not all the billets were in Weymouth itself, but in the surrounding villages.
Each commando was expected to be 'on parade' first thing in the morning, having found his own way to the parade square - which in No.4 Cdo's case was Weymouth beach...
Having said all this, Gillingham and Shaftsbury seem a very long way to travel even for the most enterprising commando in War time Britain! ...
Nick
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Hi John,
Well the first name, Christopher Birmingham, is obviously the easiest to ID and he's certainly on the No.4 Cdo nominal roll as: 7013529 Cpl Christopher Birmingham, Royal Ulster Rifles.
There is a 'Jerry' listed as: 3199275 WOII (CSM) John 'Jerry' Flynn, Kings Own Scottish Borderers. I have him as a L/Cpl at the time of the Dieppe Raid in 1942.
But there are also a couple of Gerrys:
6291136 Pte Gerry Swailes, BUFFS.
2572639 Pte Gerry Francis Lynn, Kings Regt.
Pte Lynn was the only one of the above who was not involved in the Dieppe Raid...
Sadly, there is no 'Pop' listed in the No.4 Cdo Nominal Roll.
But there are a lot of photos of No.4 Commando in the Website's unique Gallery and not all the commandos pictured have been identified! May I suggest you follow this link and have a good browse through the photos! Click on the thumbnail to 'open' the image, then click again to enlarge the image... The thumbnails in a grey frame indicate it is a sub-album with other photos inside.
http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/4/
If you can identify your commandos on any of the photos in the Gallery, the Admin would like to know...
Nick
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Hi Dave,
Sorry, I think I may have confused you even further, L/Telegraphist Bowman was nothing to do with No.5 Cdo.
He was at HMS SAlsette in 1942, No.5 were at Kharakvasla Camp in 1945...
I have seen a comment the HMS Salsette was renamed HMS Braganza III (the RN had a very annoying (for researchers) habit of renaming ships and shore based establishments and thought nothing of having three different establishments all bearing the same name but different cardinal numbers...) I wonder if HMS Salsette moved from Lake Kharakvasla and was renamed at the same time?
HMS Braganza III Combined Op, landing craft signal and navigation training establishment, Bombay.
Nick
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Hi Dave,
Further bits and pieces...
The attachment is an extract from: an article by John Rose, Reproduced by kind permission of NOA News, The Quarterly Journal of the North Oxford Association. Vol 2, Issue 2, April 2004 - you'll see that the author describes Lake Kharakvasla Camp as being "in the Presidency of Bombay..."
There is a thesis from the Naval Postgraduate School in California, entitled 'HISTORY OF SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES IN MALAYSIA', from which this is an extract
LINE OF DEVELOPMENT 1. Training As a special operations unit, Force 136 emphasized training. In July 1941, initial training was conducted at STS 101 in Tanjung Balai, Singapore, and Lieutenant Colonel J. M. L. Gavin was the first commandant. Tanjung Balai is an isolated headland on the south coast of Singapore Island, appropriate for Force 136?s clandestine operations training.
Force 136 evacuated and established their new training center in Calcutta when the Japanese drew close to Singapore.
Force 136 (Malaya Section) training continued at the British Far East Military School or Camp Kharakvasla, within the Mahratta Fort in Poona near Mount Singrah, British India. The dilapidated building was converted to barracks, offices, halls, classrooms, a mess, conference rooms, and parade grounds. The course mainly covered shooting skills, assassinations, raids, canoeing, explosives and bombing, clandestine communications, intelligence gathering, camouflage, map reading, and guerrilla warfare. Practical lessons were taught almost every day. Originally, the schedule for training recruits lasted a month, but was soon extended to two months. The training focused and prepared the recruits in sabotage and espionage roles. However, when they were deployed in the field, their chief role was gathering intelligence. There had been feedback from agents on the ground that Force 136 should emphasize training in intelligence gathering. Agents also practiced the essential maneuvers for debarking from submarines and managing ?folboats.?
Force 136 emphasized training until their departure date. Training was conducted in English. Lim Bo Seng translated instructions for the Chinese ?Dragon? groups. During that period, Tan Choon Tee, a Malayan student recruited in China, and Lim Bo Seng wrote every note, copied maps, translated confidential documents, and wrote reports for Kuomintang (KMT) nationalist headquarters in Chungking. During training, Chinese trainees were divided into proChinese, who were sent by the Chinese government and regarded the British as comrades-in-arms for the war, and pro-British, who were recruited directly by the British. The pro-British Chinese were overseas Chinese workers or former employees in the British service. These two groups were not trained together, to avoid mutual suspicion and jealousy. Trainees were kept a distance from one another to keep up the spirit and strength of Force 136.
[references:
Shennan, Our Man, 75, 76, 9.21
Frederick Spencer Chapman, The Jungle Is Neutral (New York: W. W. Norton & Co. Inc., 1949), 114. ]
and The Manchester Regiment spent some time at the camp and there are a series of photos entitled :Combined Operations training on Lake Kharakvasla dated 1942 (serial nos MR 1343 - 1350)
http://www.manchester-regiment.org.uk/frontend.php?&keywords=03_2nd_Battalion&action=search&pages=60&page=4
Hope you can make sense of all this - and that it helps!
Nick
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Hi Dave,
Because of No.5 Cdo's link to Kharakvasla Camp and then this reference to HMS Salsette
3 July 1942. Kharakvasla Camp. Arrived here, HMS Salsette, (the Royal Navy Combined Operations base), two days ago after hectic drive in army trucks. The place is in the catchment area of a reservoir... Once again I find myself a pioneer and spend the days road-making and making tents habitable. In this connection, it is comforting to know that officers? accommodation is no different from the mens'.
I have done a bit more digging and can now say that Kharakvasla and Khadakwasla are the same place...
This puts HMS Salsette on the shores of Lake Kharakvasla - a reservoir - near to Poona (Pune)...
We have a number of group photos of No.5 Cdo at Kharakvasla in 1945 - but, unfortunately, there is nothing in the background that is of any use in identifying the camp! This photo [link below] was identified by Capt Tim Balchin, No.5 Cdo, as being the HQ Troop, Lake Kharakvasla, India, June 1945.
http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/5/scan0002+_3_.jpg.html
I have included some attachments which may help in slotting the pieces together...
The first is an extract from : D.L.I. AT WAR: The History of the Durham Light Infantry 1939-1945, by David Rissik
The second is an extract from : The Indian Army, 1939-47: Experience and Development, by Patrick Rose
The third is an extract from : It's All In The Mind: The Life And Legacy Of Larry Stephens, by Julie Warren
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Hi Dave,
After Bombay and early 1944, 'H' Cdo were sent to the Arakan in Burma to take part in Operation Screwdriver and then with Screwdriver II - a landing of Army and RM Cdos on the Arakan coast in March 44.
Once Screwdriver II had achieved its objective 'H' Cdo returned to Bombay and then back to Europe for the final operations in Italy
Nick
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for that.
Research into some individuals can be like a complex jigsaw puzzle - you just have to get all the pieces together then jiggle them around until they fit together in the right place...
However, sometimes there's an odd piece that doesn't belong!
It's great fun and tremendously rewarding when it all comes together...
Nick
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