Messages posted by: mike beckett

Could it be a location rather than a raid? - We would need to consult the early War Diaries to see if paths crossed at all re billeting etc or shared HQ etc ... Not necessarily all Commandos portrayed being there at the same time.

There are several variations of genuine ME Badges. I have one attributed to a veteran that is cut out of sheet brass, not the 'usual' construction at all. The secret is to know where an item comes from. Not that I agree with badgering veterans at all ... that is bang out of order as I am sure we all agree.
Regards
Mike
Can't believe I used the word 'badgering' - almost a pun!

Geoff
Given the Indian Connection I wonder if the item refers to Mission 204 whose badge was a white metal/silver version of the ME Cdo badge. As you probably know many ME Cdos went to Mission 204, along with other former Layforce Personnel who were given the option to go to SAS, G(R) Middle East pool, Mission 204 or RTU etc on the demise of Layforce - this info from a great pal of mine - Walter Marshall of No11 Cdo etc, sadly no longer with us, but never forgotten! Walter went to Mission 204. For a photograph he loaned me, showing the badge being worn see Allied Special Forces Insignia 1939-1948 by Peter Taylor - page 108-109
Regards
Mike

Geoff
Do you know if there is any inventory of exhibits anywhere please? It is a while since I saw the museum (November 2002 - Commando Association reunion up there) but I enjoyed it a great deal. Some fascinating items to be sure!
Regards
Mike

Further to my posting above, which is taken from the Public Record Office document PRO FO 83/697:

Independent Companies
The state of Independent Companies at 26 July 1940 may be considered confusing. On 27 April 1940 No 1 Independent Company embarked at Rosyth on HMS Arethusa, sailing for Mo in Norway (changing ship to RMS Orion and SS Royal Ulsterman in Scapa Flow next day). On 4 May Nos 3, 4 and 5 Independent Companies had embarked at Gourock on SS Ulster Prince, for action in Norway. No2 arrived in theatre on 14 May. These 5 units were being evacuated home by 1 June. They soon joined the other 5 Independent Companies in the UK.
Further more - No11 Independent Commando was formed on 14 June 1940 from volunteers from the other Independent Companies.
However - During his visit to to Independent Companies that had not served in Norway Dudley Clarke noted that "they had heard the first five companies were coming back from Norway and it was difficult to see what future could remain for those which had not been in action. Already rumours of disbandment had reached the ranks"

Regards
Mike

The state of readiness of Independent Companies, Parachute Commando (note Singular) and Irregular Commandos at 26 July 1940 was as follows: with numbers of Officers and men under the states of 'Trained and ready to operate' 'still under training' 'now forming' 'still to form'.

Independent Companies:
4 & 5 Ind. Coys. had formed and were in Scotland, No10 was also formed, the others were under training or still forming.

Parachute Commando
The Parachute Commando had Officers and men in the three states of 'training', 'forming' or 'still to form', no one is noted as 'trained and ready to operate'.

Irregular Commandos
Of the Irregular Commandos - seven tenths of No3, No4 and No5 Commandos were ready to operate, the balance of these three units were under training. Nos 6, 7 and 8 were forming. The others were still forming.

Availability of Arms for all units was limited - in fact a shortage is very apparent.

A further parachute Commando was being considered against the background of limited training facilities. It is noted that parachute volunteers were recruited across all Commands, as opposed to each Commando generally coming from a single Command.

No12 Commando is mentioned but no analysis given

Regards
Mike

Hello Ted/Belly/J-B
Yes I saw those items too and asked for more details of attribution. No doubt they came from a very good source as they look correct, but there was nothing definitive/specific re being Commando related (ie 2 SS Bn) or not. I bought a book in order to do more research - 'To Reason Why' by Denis Forman, though it is still on the 'to read thoroughly and digest' list. It discusses Battle Schools, as promoted by General Paget. The idea of Battle Schools appears to have arisen from a paper written in 1940 by Lt-Gen Alexander (later Field Marshal) on his return with the Army from Dunkirk. He placed emphasis on the need for more realistic Infantry training. (This was developed in parallel but on different lines than Commando training). The idea was taken up by a Brigadier, who on assuming command of a Division established a 'battle school' for his Division's infantry junior leaders, in Ashdown Forest . Lt General Bernard Paget (later General Sir Bernard Paget) was a keen supporter from his first visit, and when he became C-in-C Home Forces ordered the establishment of Divisional Battle Schools in all Home Commands and initiated the GHQ Battle School - opened at Barnard Castle in 1942 - to produce instructors for the new schools. (see Appendix VIII of 'To Reason Why' pages 218-220)
I have yet to do more research in this area. I am sure the insignia is not common, but feel it may well have its origins in this development. Regards Mike

It would be interesting to hear if any veteran of 2 Special Service Battalion (2 SS Bn) ever recalls this badge. Although it is illustrated in Bill Carmen's excellent article on Commando Insignia, which featured in Military Illustrated Past and Present for Dec/Jan 1988 and Feb/March 1988 (issues 10 and 11) there is some doubt over it being 'Commando' related. Alternative suggestions include an association with the Highland Battle School.

I have this pattern, and a variant in similar colours but with longer bladed Claymores. However I have never found any photographic evidence of wear - by members of 2 SS Bn or anyone else. It remains a bit if an enigma.

Incidentally, the picture in Military Illustrated has the badge with Hilts down/Blades up. This would be logical if following the format for Army Physical Training insignia etc.

Comments from any veteran may help clarify whether this badge has 'commando' connections. After years of research I am beginning to doubt it. I retain my examples but await definitive attribution.

Further Literature on COPP's include the following increasingly scarce books:

The Secret Invaders - by Bill Strutton and Michael Pearson, published by Hodder and Stoughton in 1958

Survey by Starlight - by Ralph Neville published by Hodder and Stoughton in 1949 (dedicated to the authors companions in COPP5)

The exploits of COPP also form extracts in a number of other books but the above are of specific interest.

Regards
Mike

I am full of apologies today - you are quite right I meant to address the lugs message to Jack (now amended). Regards Mike

Pete - The intention of the posting on the British and Commonwealth Military Badge Forum was to anticipate any thoughts of a heraldic link to the perimeter guard role of No2 (through depicting a chain in the design) and suggest such thoughts would appear fanciful. Sorry if that was not clear. I can not recall any records or images of Chrome badges being worn contemporaneously by Commandos.

Jack - With regard to lug fastenings etc - there are examples of Chromed badges being worn by non-Commando units, for example - by units attached to the Royal Armoured Corps. In these instances the lugs (or more common 'slider' attachments) are indeed chromed as both the back and front of standard cap badges were subject to the Chrome process.

This is slightly irrelevant in the context of this oddity, which does appear to plagiarise No2 insignia at its centre. I would agree with views that it is connected with post war security company rather than having Commando affiliations. The words Special Services (as opposed to Special Service) further diminish Commando links - as I also posted on the British and Commonwealth Badge Forum and share here.

Regards Mike