Combined Operations Pilotage Parties (COPP) berets

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 18/05/2011 02:38:11

Hello everyone

My grandfather served in the Royal Engineers during WWII. He was later assigned to COPP and I did his Commando course at Achnacarry or Ardentinny (the seems to be some confusion over that - the soldiers assigned to COPP deffo went to Achnacarry and the sailors to Ardentinny, but there is some suggestion that all officers went to Ardentinny regardless of their "parent" unit).

Anyway, I digress. I've got my grandfather's shoulder badge (red lettering on black background saying 'COMMANDO') and his Combined Operations badge.

But my question is, would someone like him have carried on wearing his black Royal Engineers beret, or would he have switched to the famous green one? But would he have kept the Royal Engineers badge on it, regardless?

Any thoughts appreciated!
Thanks in advance
Rob

Edit: just thought, he was an officer by the time he joined COPP, so presumably he didn't wear a beret at all? So many questions - sorry! But if he hadn't been an officer ...

I was priviledged to have as a friend, for a number of years before his death, Major Alec Colson MBE who was a member of COPP 8. Alec read engineering at Cambridge and was then commissioned into the Sappers. He volunteered for Commando service, but was invited to join COPP. All of Alec's training - including basic Commando training - was done at Hayling Island and he was awarded his green beret there. From Alec's accounts, army members of COPP wore the green beret with the badge of their parent regiment. However, he also told me that dress could be pretty motley at times! Alec gave a tremendous amount of assistance to Ian Trenowden, who wrote "Stealthily By Night" the definitive book on COPP and its operations. While always intending to be a career officer, Alec was in fact ordained into the Church of England in 1960. I suspect that few of his parishioners ever knew of his wartime exploits in the Far East.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 20/05/2011 12:34:35

Hi Rob and John

John Robertson, the administrator of the Special Forces Roll of Honour site, has an excellent section of his gallery on Combined Operations Assault Pilotage Parties (COPPs) with many individual and group photos including one of Major Colson MBE. We have a sharing arrangement with John regarding photos and sometime ago I placed the photo of Major Colson in our gallery for 2 SBS as John had that and COPP 8 as his units. Firstly if you have not seen his gallery on COPP I recommend you view all 4 pages of pictures on this link:

http://www.specialforcesroh.com/gallery.php?action=view_cat&sort=n&id=14&page=1

Additionally, as I mentioned, we have a gallery on 2 SBS which includes a document about their formation through to Feb 1944 written by their admin officer Lieut. Quigley. In there he mentions Lt Basil Eckhard arriving from ISRB on the 21st May 1942 and forming COPP, introducing them to canoeing, and going on to become 2 SBS chief instructor. It should be noted that 2 SBS did wear the Green Beret. You may wish to browse that gallery also:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/WW2/sbs/

Finally for the benefit of others, as I see Rob has already posted here, and to keep together on the one forum message the links on COPP's , there is information on the Combined Operations website which can be read on this link:

http://www.combinedops.com/COPPs.htm

Pete

I also found this Daily Telegraph obituary to Lt. Cmdr. 'Fuzz' Fyson of 2 COPP. Again off topic of the beret but worthy of reading:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1574370/Lt-Cdr-Fuzz-Fyson.html

Thank you for your responses, gentlemen.

John: yes, from the photos I've seen, the dress does appear to have been pretty informal! It is nice, though, to hear from someone who had spoken with Alec, and in particular that about the green berets. Thank you.

I have to admit, though, I am intrigued that Alec said he did all of his training at Hayling Island: there is a very detailed logbook of COPP 8's training which mentions Alec going to Ardentinny with the rest of the COPP team - but that was for only eight days out of what was usually a four-month training period to join COPP, so he might easily have glossed over it in his recollections.

Pete: I will have to read that account in more depth at a later date, as I have other things to get done tonight. But I thought you might like to know that Roger Courtney was involved in what was in effect the first COPP operation, when he was recommended to Nigel Clogstoun-Willmott, the Royal Navy officer charged with planning navigation for the planned invasion of Rhodes. Together, they carried out the recces of those beaches. COPP was still an evolving unit at the time Basil Eckhard first got involved, which was in August 1942 for Party Inhuman (the recces carried out of the North African coast ahead of Operation Torch) and the beach-marking duties on the day of the invasion. It was after the near-shambles of that that the need to establish COPP on an official basis was recognised at COHQ, and Willmott assembled his team at Hayling Island, and indeed Eckhard was part of the team delivering the training.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/09/2011 21:59:14

Further Literature on COPP's include the following increasingly scarce books:

The Secret Invaders - by Bill Strutton and Michael Pearson, published by Hodder and Stoughton in 1958

Survey by Starlight - by Ralph Neville published by Hodder and Stoughton in 1949 (dedicated to the authors companions in COPP5)

The exploits of COPP also form extracts in a number of other books but the above are of specific interest.

Regards
Mike

Just had a quick look on the abebooks.co.uk website. Secret Invaders range from £3 to £31. Survey by Starlight...£4.20 to £20.