Messages posted by: markh

I've just come back from a fascinating visit to Bletchley Park http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/

near Milton Keynes, north west of London https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?gl=uk&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=205889036322941502495.00049a1f8c97aad72b13b&ll=51.996719,-0.738487&spn=0.025366,0.054932&z=14&source=embed

I'm in no way connected to Bletchley Park, but I found it one of those places you could visit many times and have a unique visit as there is far too much to see and take in during a single day - you can revisit anytime for a year with same ticket.

In hut 12 -I think-, by the cafe, they have a very small exhibit about Ian Flemming's 30 Assault unit Commando

Some highlights: you can also see several Enigma machines; find about the computing and mathematical genius Alan Turing; see a working reproduction of Colossus the world's first programmable digital computer and exhibits of British and Germany infantry equipment and a reproduction of the Bombe decryption device.

Bletchley Park is still under restoration, but well worth a visit !

Interesting documentary, Enigma and Bletchley park feature in a lot of the recent revelations about WW2.

There is apparently going to be a book:

The forthcoming book Dieppe Decoded, by acclaimed Montreal historian David O'Keefe, will provide the stunning story behind one of the Second World War's most enduring mysteries?and one of Canada's most sorrowful moments.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1020629/random-house-canada-is-proud-and-honoured-to-announce-that-it-has-acquired-for-publication-in-2013-the-remarkable-ultra-secret-story-behind-the-greate

Not having visited Dieppe, it was interesting to be taken round the town, by air, sea and land in the documentary. Thanks to Google street view, you can take a wander around the present day Dieppe

[Link to streetview view of Dieppe harbour]

https://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=dieppe&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=70.352627,135.263672&vpsrc=6&t=w&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dieppe,+Seine-Maritime,+Upper+Normandy,+France&ll=49.927294,1.083695&spn=113.197541,270.527344&z=3&layer=c&panoid=bICiP4__1wy4Ci5dXQtWaQ&cbll=49.927294,1.083695&cbp=13,-269.54400289759064,,0,-0.14350653544985903

We will remember them.

DIEPPE UNCOVERED

9pm Sunday 19th August 2012
http://uktv.co.uk/yesterday/item/aid/653281

From what I read today -from a Google search - seems it is a new 90 min documentary.

O'Keefe's research has revealed that the raid was launched as a diversionary tactic designed to provide cover for a commando unit ordered to penetrate German naval headquarters believed to be housed in the town's Hôtel Moderne and to board certain boats in the harbour, all in a bid to steal German code books and a code machine. In military parlance and only at the very highest levels of command the Dieppe Raid was dubbed a pinch operation. The head of the commando unit was none other than Ian Fleming, a Second World War British intelligence officer and the creator of spy extraordinaire James Bond.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Documentary+puts+ghosts+Dieppe+rest/7094535/story.html#ixzz23zfehG3I

"board certain boats in the harbour" intrigues/excites me, as my late Granddad, George Norton Barnes was at Dieppe, what little he did say about it he talked about going after the ships in the harbour. Other short snippets from his war time service revolved around working with safe crackers based on the isle of white and going on raids, "the gang" he called them.

It could be VM, but would they put vehicle mechanic on your sleeve in large letters ? Certainly he never mentioned anything about mechanics in the many decades I was lucky to know him. He was a builder after the war until he retired, and I never associated him with repairing his cars at all. Very good at clock repairs though.

What else would VM mean ? Would be interesting to know if royal marine battalions put Roman numerals on their sleeves. I have found no evidence so far.

Any comments about the picture welcome. He always said it was taken after Dieppe on leave, so around Aug/Sept 1942. The grass looks long behind him, but not sure about the plants, they seem not to have many leaves.
Of course asking somebody to remember back 70 years is probably a big ask, given I don't recall names of some people I worked with a few years ago, let alone 70 !

Here you are. I just noticed the attachments button.

ex RM Commando Ken Parker pointed out to me that it looks like George is wearing a beret under his helmet.

Have you received the records yet ?

My current theory is VIII means 8 as in 8th Royal Marine Battalion- later B and 41 Commando.
This article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41_Commando talks about 41 Commando being based in the Isle of Wight and involved in the invasion of Sicily which fits in with the stories my granddad used to tell.

However, as he was at Dieppe, I've not found any reference to 8th Battallion being at Dieppe, so assumed he was attached to A Commando which became 40 Commando. My assumption is based on reading about A Commando at Dieppe. In this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_Commando A Commando are tasked with selected tasks in the port area , but [on]landing, under well-nigh impossible conditions, suffered severe casualties. Of the 370 officers and men, 76 were lost on the beaches. My granddad would only say they were going to blow up/steal ships in the harbour and they got to the beach "near cliffs" and it was "terrible". He did't want to talk more, I could imagine why.

Anybody any information on Commandos manning landing craft tanks on D-DAY ?

My granddad was sent back from Burma with some others as "they needed everyone they could get for D-Day". At this point he was with 5 Commando. I saw a 5 Commando record which mentions some men being sent back to Europe. Their job was to help crew a Landing ship Tank LCT. Interestingly for me was he landed on a US beach. He wasn't sure which, but as it wasn't a blood bath we suspect it was Utah. He told me they would help guide US troops ashore, then bring back wounded.

They sailed from Portsmouth the night before D-DAY, the LCT and some others had to turn back as they had started off too early.
He talked about thousands of ships and planes of the invasion force. Later talked of how he saw parachutists being dropped - which I thought happened at night, so not sure how he saw this, but he certainly said this. Maybe it was later on, or early morning reinforcement ?

A landing ship Tank LCT were flat bottomed, making it easier to land on beaches, but prone to roll and make everyone sea sick. The LCT would beach on the beach dropping the anchor, when the tide went out they had to wait , but could then pull themselves back.

They did the trip many times, spending about week on D-Day, then was sent back to India/Burma by ship with the fear of U Boats, but possibly a bit safer as not in combat.

This link http://www.combinedops.com/LCT%202331.htm talks about UK forces manning LSTs on US beaches.

Anybody else heard about Commandos helping out. In this case as a sort of guide to the troops, then ambulance on the way back.

Bob Bishop wrote Many officers and N.C.O.s who had been wounded elsewhere were shipped there to act in the role of instructors if they were deemed unfit to return to full duty in their former Commandos.

That is interesting thanks. My grandfather was wounded in the hand, spending time in Weymouth hospital. At some point he was a sergeant and also an instructor at Wrexham, where "20% losses were allowed". He told me about some US Rangers being shot up during training while under fire on a river at Wrexham. He claimed he played for Wrexham football club at least once, as they didn't have enough players due to the war.
He would never talk for long about his time, just snippets which I am trying to piece together. So I wonder if he was wounded, then spent time as an instructor at Wrexham ?

He was in the invasion of Scilly in June 1943 when Bob says the HOC opened in 1943.

Oh, at some point my grandad was demoted for some incident involving a non-commando officer bawling out my granddad and some others for being improperly dressed, they had just came back from a raid and were in a mess, ripped clothes etc . Somebody pulled the officer's cap down over his eyes. I think the officer was made to apologise in private, but in public discipline had to be kept !

A Commando at Dieppe: Is there a list of those involved ?

My late granddad talked about Dieppe many times, but mostly in the sense he was there and it wasn't at all nice. No more than he was with some US Rangers and they didn't get much further than just touching the beach, and something about them going after the boats in the harbour.

We have a photo of him in posing in battle dress with bayonet fixed, taken just after Dieppe at his brothers house in Weymouth.

On his left sleeve above the elbow , I can make out VIII. Any idea what this means ?

How long roughly to receive a relative's service records ? Weeks, months ?
Thanks

Thanks Geoff, are you able to upload a picture of the listing in "No 5 Commando Newsletter No 9" ?

Are these Commando news letters available online anywhere ? I recall as a kid looking at the news letters, but once my granddad moved house about 20 years ago, he wasn't bothered about receiving them.

Saturday my grandmother received a kind letter from the Commando Association. In the letter they mention George was in 5 Commando and 1/5 Commando, but no RM units. I understand 1 and 5 merged in HongKong at the end of the war. Speaking with my sister yesterday, she confirmed that George used to reel off a list of RM and Army Commando units he was in or attached to. But never much detail. I'm hoping when I get the service records there might be more detail.

Thanks for your replies.

We had my granddad George's funeral this morning. To my surprise, as well as Ken Parker (RM 47 Commando ) of the Royal Marines association, there was an ex Commando Roy Maxwell from the old Commando Association, he knew my granddad from the association in Bristol. Both of these commandos discovered they had been at Walcheren. Also turned out that Roy knew my 2nd cousin.

Interesting that Roy Maxwell also thought my granddad went from Army 5 Commando to the RM Commando, I guess he looked at the same record you saw. George's Commando certificate states him finishing in 5 Commando with service number 14987370 Fus. Barnes G.N Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. He always told me the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers came about when he was moved from the RM Commandos to the Army Commandos due to his flat feet.

Where do you think "Army Service number as 107640. " came from Could that be a Royal Marines service number ? He told when in the Royal Marine Commandos, they were assigned to units depending on the job.

thanks.

My granddad was in both the Royal Marine and Army commandos. His commando certificate only shows his Army Commando service and only India/Hong Kong which is certainly missing Burma.
Asking about his time with the Commandos he often told me about fighting in France, Scilly, Madagascar, North Africa which I guess was with the Royal Marine Commandos. He also spent time in South Africa, not fighting, but nor was he fighting in India which is mentioned. Should this be on his certificate ?

In South Africa he often mentioned "having tea with General Smuts". He was one of the Commandos assigned as a bodyguard. He said the South Africans were wonderful to them, Cape Town being beautiful, but he was shocked at how the black people were segregated.

Are these omissions the result of there being two branches of Commandos during WW2, each with their own admin ?

At the time, I'm sure my granddad was just glad the war was over, so no interest in correcting a piece of paper -he never claimed his campaign medals either.

Later however, he did keep the certificate on his bedroom wall, so it certainly meant something to him.

I'm going to apply for his service records to hopefully clear things up.

After several years of active service in the Royal Marine Commandos with flat feet, he was eventually thrown out due to suffering bleeding flat feet after a training march, but was still good enough for the Army Commandos !

"In 1997 the French government issued certificates to all Commandos who participated in the Dieppe raid"

Who do I contact to find out about my granddad's certificate as I think he was in A or 40 Commando at the time.

Thanks