Messages posted by: markh

Hi Marcel, do you have any more information ? Those dates and ranks, did they come from a service record ? Any documents you can attach ?

On my grandad's Army service record, in the Unit column, it shows a unit that looks like Commando Wing Any idea what this is ? It is in relation to a unit in Bombay on 22/12/1945

I will post the document to the page below when I get to it.
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3563.page

the following 3 Army documents relate to the transfer of George from the Royal Marine commandos to the Army on 6th August 1944. Note its to the Buffs, then the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers which he keeps until his end of service.

This fits in with George's story of being on a flat bottomed Landing ship Tank LST during D Day, going to a US beach, dropping of soldiers, bringing back wounded. My grandmother told me he had seen US soldiers falling in the water in full kit.

6th document TA record of service paper

Q Why would somebody transfer from Royal Marines to Army ? On a to follow document you see postings to commandos.
Q Why a TA unit ?
Q As he joins the Army Commandos, would he have had to retake the Achnacarry course ? He always told me flat feet was why he was moved.

7th document TA record of service paper
Q He is shown as being in the UK from 7/8/1945 until 6/3/1945. This must include time taken to sail to India.
Q He is shown as being in HongKong for nearly a year 9/1/1946 to 13/12/1946. This must include time taken to sail from HongKong to the UK. George told me they went via the Suez canal and took several months.

8th document form b102
Q Is this form saying 2/2/1947 put on to reserve list ? "released to class Z" ?

More to follow

3rd document George's Commando service certificate

Note it is signed by "Lt Col Commanding No 1/5 Commando", same signature as on the notification of impending release NIR, but dated 4/11/1946 compared to 15/11/46 for the NIR form.
Perhaps they did not have a 1/5 commando stamp to use on the NIR form that NIC queries.

Note no mention of George's service with Royal Marines which is hinted at on the NIR form with "4 years with Commando units", and proven with documents to follow.

Note Only India and HongKong are listed, NorthAfrica and Sicily are not mentioned. Could he not have been not with the Commandos then, despite the NIR showing "4 years with Commando units"
Nor is Burma mentioned.

4th document thank you letter from combined ops addressed to "Barnes"

5th document Army form B200 continuation sheet - showing going on reserve and discharged 30/6/1955
Q Does it say in handwriting under personal occurrence "Medical A1 ? "

Q On the NIR form I just noticed disembarkation is 14/12/46, did it take a month to come from HongKong to the UK, given the NIR is dated 15/11/46 ?
Q Do both documents have the signature of Laycock as in Maj. General Robert Laycock of the famed Laycock papers ?

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/Royal+Marine+Commando+Units/45+RM+Commando/Maj+Gen+Sir+Robert+_Lucky_+Laycock_+chief+of+Combined+Operations_+talking+to+Royal+Marine+Commandos+during+an+inspection.jpg.html

Hi Biker welcome to the forum,

can you provide any more information about Fred ? Do you know any countries he served in, or can you remember any snippets of information he told you ?

Hi David, do you have any pictures you could upload of your grandfather, they might give us a clue. Do you have any documents, such as a paybook or other military records ? Was he Army or Navy ?

I recommend applying for his service records http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/Personnel/ServiceRecords/FurtherInformationAboutServiceRecordsHeldByMod.htm
but you will need to know which service, date of birth and place and birth at least.

Series of postings on Service records for George Norton Barnes

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/0/3563.page#12289

We applied and received the records from Royal Marines and Army within 3 weeks or so. A pleasant surprise !

I've started posting them up for comment.
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/0/3563.page#12289

Rather unexpectedly, we have received my late grandfathers service records from the Royal Marines and Army. Taking only a few weeks, not the 6 months+ we expected.
A very nice surprise indeed !

The records contain much more than I hoped, they confirm many broad details, but miss out a lot of details, and contradict themselves a little.
I don't know where to begin, so I'm going to post up the documents for others to cast their eyes over as a series, hopefully giving people time to comment and help me piece together a timeline and also perhaps they can provide clues for other researchers.

My grandfather liked a joke, but was certainly not a bragger, or one to invent stories. On the other hand he did suffer a few mini strokes, and memories do fade or get confused. All the stories I did get out of him were over many years, trying to extract a few more details. I'm hoping to find documentary evidence to prove or disprove some of his stories, and maybe find out a little more what he and others endured.

In a broad summary

The documents confirm he joined the Royal Marines, was in 40 and 41 Commando and then on 6th August 1944 gets transferred to the Army via the Territorial army Buffs/Royal Fusilliers ending up in
"HO Cmdo" and finishing the war with 5 Commando. He always said he was transferred due to flat feet, yet the TA form shows him "A1" and why does he end up in "HO Cmdo" ?

Oddly for the family, the Royal Marines show he enlisted in Bristol on 24th March 1942 which means he was 18 years, 7 months, 14 days. I confirmed the other day with my grandmother that he always said he joined around 16 and half years old, I heard this from him myself.

Also missing is any mention of being a Sgt. and also being demoted to ranks - an unrelated officer apparently bawled them out after they came back from a bad raid, words were exchanged and a hat knocked off was the story. My grandmother told me she saw Sgt. in my grandfathers paybook, but sadly that book was thrown out.

First instalment of documents

1st Document
I'm starting by posting two from the end of the war: "Notification of Impending release" from the Army this is dated 15/11/1946 and signed by a Lt Col. of 5 Commando. Of note is it mentions
"4 years with Commando units".
This document ties up with 2 pictures of him on this site showing 5 Commando.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/5/India+or+Burma+2.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/5/Group+of+No5+Cdo_e.jpg.html

Q I noticed a Disembarkation state of 14th Dec. 1946, would this have been stamped when he arrived back ?
Q Can anybody read the name of the Col. ?
Q "Age and service group 45" - what does that mean ?
Q Does Ashford mean he passed through Ashford, Kent ?
Q At the bottom of the form it refers to other documents, any idea what these are ?
Q On none of the other documents do they mention any training he received, just left blank. Was this typical of Commando units ?
Q Any other comments ?

2nd document from the Army lists time spent in Service.

This form is interesting as it mentions "Sicily 4/12" George always claimed they were parachuted by accident into the sea off Sicily by an American aircraft. I find no mention of Sicily on the other records.
The same form mentions N Africa 1 year, which ties up with stories of being in Egypt, Tobruk and I believe he said they flew from Tunisia to Sicily. But again no mention of North Africa on the other records.

Q Any comments ?

Update: Royal marine records here http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3577.page

Thanks everyone.

On behalf of my family, we would like to thank in no particular order the Bristol Royal Marines Reserve for their help at such short notice; SSAFA for all their support; WW2 Commandos Roy Maxwell and Ken Parker who paid their last respects, the Commandos' Benevolent Fund and all the people on this site for their help.

Here is a picture of my late Grandfather taken in January this year on showing him the picture of himself in 5 Commando that I found on this great site http://www.commandoveterans.org I'm not sure who was more surprised to see the picture, me or him !

Here is the picture George was looking at http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/5/India+or+Burma+2.jpg.html

Some more about the documentary here.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3447.page#12137

Visit to Bletchley
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3553.page

Thanks Phil, looks a very useful resource http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/news/bna/index.html

the £6.95 package that lasts for 48 hours and provides 500 credits, and the £29.95 package that lasts for 30 days and provides 3000 credits. The subscription package is priced £79.95 for one year

George Jackson seems to have been popular with women according to the article "Women mobbed the police car, shouting 'good old George, good luck boy'". He was "5 ft. 4in and 25 years old" according to the same article Phil provided : http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/55938503

Thanks very much Phil. Which online newspaper records did you consult ? Google search only threw up the short article.

Was he a Commando when he was sentenced in Jan. 1945 ?

I wonder if he became a Commando because of his house breaking skills, or learnt/improved them while in the Commandos ?

Which Commando was he in ? What was he doing with the Commandos ? For me, this has sparked more and more questions !

"Godmanchester is a small town and civil parish within the Huntingdonshire district of Cambridgeshire, in England. It lies on the south bank of the River Great Ouse, south of the larger town of Huntingdon, and on the A14 road."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godmanchester

Interesting one from June 1946

"Police hunt for George Jackson, an ex-Commando and convict who has escaped from Prison"
Anybody know anything about him ?

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/escaped-prisoner-in-hampshire/query/CONVICTS
No sound when I played it.

The search cost "£500 a day" in this article
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/35702183

Nice. Here is the direct link

http://www.britishpathe.com/search/query/commando