Messages posted by: Pete

Hi Pete

If that service number is correct your great uncle was a Commando in the Royal Marines. PLY is Plymouth. The number indicates that he enlisted as 'Hostilities Only', ie. the duration of the war. In WW2 not all Royal Marines were Commandos but your great uncle's green beret indicates at some time he trained as one and joined a commando unit. You should apply to the National Archives for a copy of his Service Record which hopefully will show a timeline of service and ships/units. It is an online application and I have included the link below. There are very long waiting times at present due to the fact that millions of military records are being digitised however the initial application is free with only a small charge when they find them to have them sent to you. I strongly advise you to include a copy of his death certificate with your application to avoid content being redacted due to their terms of disclosure. I have checked what I have and unfortunately cannot find his name but I am aware the nominal rolls and archive pages in the Commando Veterans Archive are not complete. In the meantime if you have any photos of Arthur wearing his green beret even if post war why don't you post them here.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mod-closed-foi-request-step1

Reply sent by email.

Hi Steve

Do you have any good clear photo of your grandfather either in uniform or not ? If so can you either attach it here and I will add it to the archive or email me via the email tab below this message and send it direct. Here is the link to the page I previously created for him. Do you also have his exact date of death ?

https://www.commandoveterans.org/IorwethThomas3Commando

Pete

Hi Darren

I have created a page in our archive A-Z for your grandfather. Do you know the exact date of his death and was it Bromley? If so I shall add that. The link below has some explanations HOC was Holding Commando Operational, HCO (L) Holding Commando Operational (Light). These were as the term suggests Holding Bases whilst they were awaiting re-deployment or in your Grandfather's case drafting to Hong Kong.

45RM Commando was one of the three RM Commando Units not disbanded after the war. On 31 January 1946, at Chatham, 45 embarked on board the aircraft carrier HMS Rajah for the Far East arriving at Port Said on 11 February and Singapore on 1 March. They arrived at Kowloon on 7 March.

A-Z Personnel: https://www.commandoveterans.org/Edward_D_West_RM_Commando

Who is the navy chap alongside him in the photo. A brother ? If so please provide his forename as that photo with your grandfather will be going in the 43RM Cdo Gallery.

Pete

I would just add that there are one or two confusing entries on different pages of the service record, for example his joining date for No.6 Commando being changed from June to July 1940. Also the posting to No.9 Commando for over a year mentioned on one page but nowhere else. This could be explained by his Royal Engineer skills which might have been useful in those days as prior to Feb/March 1942 there was no central training base for all commandos with each commando unit organising the training of their men. So perhaps a training role or a skill needed for some other reason. I simply do not know for certain. As is normal the Service Record does not mention specific raids. Perhaps someone with access to the No.9 and No.6 Commando War Diaries held at Kew can check entries but with some exceptions these again are somewhat disappointing in naming the other ranks.

Hi Lucie

Thank you for sending the pages from his Service Record and the photos. From those I have created various entries in our archive for your grandfather including, amongst others, the Obituaries, Gallery, and Personnel A-Z sections. I have provided some links below.

Your grandfather was originally attested into the Royal Artillery before being transferred to the Royal Engineers (RE). I found his RE Card and that lists his move to No.6 Commando and then remarkably shows his Troop number within No.6 Commando when posted.

On the record you will see references to No.6 Commando, the Special Service Battalions, No.9 Commando, Special Service Brigade HQ and of course No.6 Commando. The Special Service Battalions was a short lived re-designation of commando units before reverting back to their original commando designation. As I said in my last email at the time there was only the single 'Special Service Brigade' encompassing all the Army Commando units formed in 1940. This changed to four Brigades at the end of July beginning of August 1943 with the creation of six more RM Commando units. There were only two RM commando units up to that time both formed in 1942.

In respect of your original post your grandfather left the Commandos at the end of 1943 so would not be in any of our commando related photos covering that period. The Royal Engineers had a major role to play in establishing facilities such as the Mulberry Harbours, etc. This role continued during the advance through Europe and he is finally deployed to Hamburg in a similar role.

Personnel A-Z: https://www.commandoveterans.org/Kenneth_J_Youngs_Commando

No.6 Cdo. Gallery p3 main album for your grandfather and next to it the Helensburgh photo which includes Alf Wakefield who was later killed in action: https://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/6/?g2_page=3

No.6 Cdo. Gallery page 1, the HMS Queen Emma image: https://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/6/

Pete

Hi Lucie

We do not have access to official service records. In the absence of finding anything in the archive which I know is not complete do you have the service record of your grandfather referencing commando service or any other documentation that does so ?

Pete

Hi Darrell
If he was a commando then possibly part of one if the units in 2 Special Service (Commando) Brigade. Army Commando, Royal Marine Commando, Royal Naval Beach Commando, Servicing Commando RAF ? As I do not have access to service records and in the absence of any other commando related evidence of service I cannot assist other than to suggest you apply for his service record. How to do so can be found on the link below and I would advise you to apply for a copy of his death certificate and attach it to your application. Several of the questions are optional but do put in as much as you can find out before completing. There are long delays but the initial application is free, with a small fee to pay if the record is found.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mod-closed-foi-request-step1

I believe this relates to his death.

First name(s) Victor James
Last name Davies
Sex Male
Birth day 17
Birth month 11
Birth year 1909
Death quarter 2
Registration month 4
Death year 2000
District Denbigh North
District number 8111B
Register number B125
Entry number 089
Date of registration mm/yy 0400
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, Wales.

If you do find any evidence of commando service please do get back in touch.

I have attached the liberation questionnaire I referred to above

Steve...the service record extract you provided does not actually state 45RM just HBL RM Commando. This is common in many RM WW2 Service Records. His identification in the 'E' Troop photo you provided had a date of 1944 but you will note that in the gallery there is an identical photo which gives a location of Sinfield Camp near Horsham and is dated 1946. Certainly 45RM were in Horsham at that time. I have no other source that mentions 45RM. If the latter is correct then that changes things.

https://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/Royal+Marine+Commando+Units/45+RM+Commando/E+Tp+photo/

Often people forget about those Commandos who served as part of the Special Service Brigades and were only ever attached to specific commando units as and when required, two examples being Signallers and Engineers. 45RM Commando were part of the 1st Special Service Brigade. These Commandos were often distinguished by the fact they would not have a commando number on their commando shoulder insignia. Certainly 45RM lost signallers on the 7th June when your father was one of the many casualties that day. Both John Day in his excellent book A Plain Russet-Coated Captain and David Young in the The Story of 45RM Commando mention replacement signallers and sets arriving after it.

I have found your fathers liberation questionnaire and he actually doesn't state his unit as 45RM just as Portsmouth Division. Interestingly he gives his trade on enlistment as Engineer. He gives his place of capture as Cherbourg which is not where 45RM were on the 7th June. However other units were there including 30 Assault Unit. So more research avenues for you in 2025 !

Pete

Merry Xmas to you and everyone else Vic and best wishes for the New Year when it comes.

Pete

Hi David

Sorry for the delay. I have added the photos and dates now and they can be viewed on the links below.

Personnel A-Z: https://www.commandoveterans.org/William_Price_RM_Commando

48RM Cdo Gallery (p2): https://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/Royal+Marine+Commando+Units/48+RM+Cdo/

Pete

Hi David

Thank you for posting the pages from the record. As a result I have now updated the archive with details of your father. Service records tend to simply show a timeline of service rather than details of specific operations. As a result you have to look for books and other sources relevant to that unit and from those form an understanding of his operational service based on the service record timeline. In WW2 unlike today not all Royal Marines were Commandos. Your father's commando service begins when he joins 48RM Commando. Before this he is in the 7th RM Battalion. You can read a bit about the 7th Bn., on this page in our archive: https://www.commandoveterans.org/48RMCommando

The service record shows your father at Worthing Hospital commencing late in June 1944. This is likely after becoming a casualty at Normandy and subsequent evacuation. He then re-joins 48 before ultimately joining a draft serial for the Far East to join 44RM Commando who were part of 3 Commando Brigade. Here is the entry for your father. If you provide his place of birth and date and place of death I can add those. Also if you provided a good photo of your father ideally in uniform but if not in civvies I can add it and also place it in our 48RM Commando gallery.

https://www.commandoveterans.org/William_Price_RM_Commando

Finally there are two good books about 48RM Cdo.
Haste to the Battle, by J.L. Moulton (see recent forum post about re-print).
and
DDay Commando, from Normandy to the Maas with 48 RM Cdo, by Ken Ford

Regards

Pete

From Tom Busby
Visitors to the website will be pleased to learn that we've just reprinted "Haste to the Battle", the story of Four-Eight's history from its days as 7th Battalion, Royal Marine Division and its tragic action during the invasion of Sicily, to its transformation as a Royal Marine Commando during the winter and spring of 1944. The story is told by Lt. Col. J L Moulton who formed and trained the unit in preparation for the invasion on D-Day as part of 4th Special Service Brigade.

From landing and securing its D-Day objectives, the Commando and parent Brigade eventually joined 'the pursuit' of the retreating enemy though France, and Belgium and into the Netherlands. Here the Commando trained for the most dangerous and most important assaults in North-West Europe in WWII; the capture of the island of Walcheren and its heavy coastal batteries and the opening of the River Scheldt to allow war materiel and food into the Port of Antwerp at a critical time during the war.

In the book, Colonel Moulton talks intimately of his officers and NCO's, of their personalities, their actions and reactions to military and other situations. A family bonded by war.

The book, originally printed in 1963, has been reprinted with a larger page size ('Royal' quite by chance), a modern font style, clearer photos and a striking colour cover. Details on price and how to order copies can be obtained by emailing [email protected]

You may have seen these already but if not here are some online references regarding Mission 101 in Abyssinia (Ethiopia)

The Free Library website: https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Mission+101--the+Operational+Centres%3a+the+hidden+Australian...-a0105370858

IWM Oral Interview: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80007192

UK National Archives files: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N17684018

and https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1003665

The WW2 Talk Forum website: https://www.ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/aussies-in-ethiopia-101-military-mission.33470/

Combined Operations website about Combined Training Centre Middle East (HMS Saunders): https://www.combinedops.com/Training%20CTC%20Middle%20East.htm

Pete