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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 08/03/2011 21:15:35
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Cutstone
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Joined: 08/03/2011 20:49:35
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Location: Norway
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This was a operation with 7 men from the No. 14 (artic) commando in 1943. The men were set ashore on Karmøy in Rogaland, on the southwestern coast of Norway. Their mission were to sink german ships with limpits. They were in Norway 17 days, before the were caught! I've lived not far from Karmøy all my life, and have read everything written about Rogaland and WWII, but never heard about this operating. In addition I have read many books about Commandoes, but cant remember this operation be mentioned in any greater detail. The book "Godwin's Saga, A Commando Epic " refered to on CAV pages, is ordered :)
Now a couple of questions:
- Why were there only british soldiers taking part in this operation and no norwegian?
- I will visit Kew to check out a couple of files about this operation, but have anyone here done this already?
- Why is this operation so shrouded in mist? I have different dates. On Wikipedia I found they went ashore 28. April and were caught May 15. Somwhere else it's stadet from 4-5. May??
Was it kept secret since all participants were killed?
Anyone who has more information?
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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 08/03/2011 23:13:29
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Pete
CVA Website Archivist
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Joined: 23/09/2008 00:08:02
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Hi there and welcome to the CVA..
May I just say that Wikipedia, whilst useful, often contains inaccuracies and the fact that anyone can edit anything on there by simply registering, makes me quite wary. Of course books can often be the same..only as good as the amount of research done, and the sources used by the author. I think when you get the book you will see some answers to your questions. The conclusions you come to regarding the content may be influenced by the information in the National Archives, although regrettably I have no knowledge of their content. As you know there was a great deal of activity around that time involving Commandos, Norwegians, and other units. In fact I believe there was an MTB Flotilla at Lerwick crewed by Norwegians and one of these was used. Many of these small raids were 'shrouded in mystery'. I am sure their executions, when known at the end of the war, would not have influenced any subsequent decision as you say to keep it secret. After all they were not the first to be executed after being captured during a raid in Norway. It will be interesting to hear any feedback from your visit to the National Archives and after you have read the book.
Regards
Pete
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Pete Rogers, son of LSgt Joe Rogers MM & nephew of TSM Ken McAllister. Both No2 Commando.
God and the Soldier, all men adore, In time of danger and not before.
When the danger is passed and all things righted, God is forgotten, and the Soldier slighted.
**** nb. I no longer monitor the pm facility **** |
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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 09/03/2011 00:42:28
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Cutstone
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I totally agree with all you write about Wikipedia, even though you can find a lot of information and not least good and useful references there. Especially when, except for a small notice here, thats all I could find about the operation.
Yes there were plenty of raids from the Shetlands, but most of those we have information about. My friend Daniel Rommetvedt, who was in the norwegian commandoes, took part in at least one of those raids, where the MTB he was onboard ran aground.
I will go to NA in near future and if it's interesting I will post it here.
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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 18/03/2011 17:03:31
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Cutstone
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After I put out my shout for help here and on other forums I have received a lot of information, documents and tips from friends and strangers alike. I would especially like to thank Erik Ettrup, Brian Sims and Tor Ødemotland for their great help.
One thing I?ve learned long time ago is that there are usually a lot of wrong information in circulation about operation like this. That was also the case here. They never landed on Karmøy for one.
Her are some of the documeted facts I?ve put together:
In the beginning of May 1943 the german navy issued a special warning. Everyone had to be on the lookout for enemy MTB?s and smaller vessels that were suspected of operating in the northern part of Rogaland.
Late at night April 19. 1943 the norwegian MTB 626 had moved slowly towards the norwegian coast, just northwest of Stavanger. It had a LCP (M) ? Landing Craft Personell (Medium) in tow. Around 4 nautical miles west of the southern tip of Karmøy they stopped dead in the water. The towed vessel continued on, under own power, with 7 men onboard together with two collapsable twoseater kayaks. Just south of Skudenes the engine of their LCP stopped, but after some work they managed to carry on. It was therefor almost light when they finally reached the southern tip of Bokn, around 7 in the morning. Here they hid not far from the huge cannons on the big german battery.
Description of the numbers on the map:
1 - The dropoff point
2 - First hiding place
3 - Observationpoint close by Kopervik
4 - Place where the boat was found by the germans
5 - Place where the three british soldiers were caught
6 - First daystop on the escape of the kayak team
7 - Second stop on escape
8 - The island Urter
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 18/03/2011 17:30:07
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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 18/03/2011 17:04:35
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Cutstone
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The next night four of them left in the two kayaks. Lieutenant Godwin and Able Seaman Burgess manned one kayak and the Able Seamen Mayor and West the other. After paddeling north om the east side of the island Bokn they stayed on the northern tip of Bokn the next day. At night they then proceeded on up to a small island on the other side of Karmsund from Kopervik. All day the lay here observing ships come and go. That night Lieutenant Godwin and probably Able Seaman Burgess manned one kayak, crossed the Karmsund and placed four limpet mines on the german minesweeper M 5207. When leaving the harbour at around 6:00 in the morning a guard saw their boat, but didn?t ring the alarm. At 06:25AM the first mine exploded, the next 06:36, the third at 06:41 and the last at 07:09. The ship started taking in water after the first mine blew and in the end it lay by the pier with it?s aft part on the bottom of the harbour.
The cayakteams returned to the placed where they left the LCP, but found no boat or men. After waiting for a while they crossed Karmsundet westboud and stayed one day hidden right west of Skudenes. They continued northbound on the western side of Karmøy and stayed one day just outside Veavåg. The night of 6. to 7. May they paddled northwest to the remote island of Urter. This is where the MTB were supposed to pick them up. Due to bad weather in the North Sea, the MTB tried three times to reach Norway. The british soldiers were discovered by norwegian fishermen who helped them with food and news, but rumors of them reached the germans and they were caught by a superior german force on May 15.
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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 18/03/2011 17:05:24
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Cutstone
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The LCP and the last three soldiers had also been discovered by norwegian fishermen. These told them to move the boat to a safer location further east. Here the boat was very well hidden, but also here rumors had spread about the british soldiers on the island. The mayor was nazy-friendly and reported to the germans. After a new escape the boat was found on May 12. and the soldiers on May 14. A norwegian that helped the british, and also hid them for a while was also caught, and sendt to Sachenshausen. Her was lucky enought to return after the war alive, but died a few years later.
I also have information told by one of the norwegian medics in Sachsenhausen. Alfred John Roe was sick and in the hospital barrac. He heard about the killing of his friends. The story goes that just before being executed the britsh soldiers fought back and managed to kill one of the germans before they were shot themself. The norwegian doctor heard what had happened and changed the file of Roe by puting a N for norwegian in his file. The same day he was therefor sendt west with other sick norwegian prisoners to the Bergen Belsen camp. Sadly he died of Thyphoid before he arrived.
Just a few days after the capture of the british soldiers, norwegian fishermen fishing outsiden Urter were contacted by the norwegian MTB 626 who was looking for the soldiers. When they got the news, they returned to Lerwick.
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The LCP (M) used by the commadoes during operation Checkmate, here in german hands. |
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 22/03/2011 18:15:15
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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 23/09/2011 02:13:05
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joolz
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Hi
I visited Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp last week to lay flowers for the guys on Op Checkmate as my dad was a RM Commando at the time they died. I have photos of the memorial and of the memorial wall where they have photos and info about the murder of the men. Would anyone like these posted?
My dad didn't talk much about his war service apart from the good stuff like the comrades and ships, but he teased an ex-RAF uncle for landing him chest deep in water in Holland when the RAF bombed the dams, which I've worked out was Walcheren. I have a few letters to his sister and discovered he was on HMS Warspite (his favourite ship) during Huskie. I think he was on Warspite on D-Day too and ended up piloting landing craft as 'his' gun was out of operation, before going ashore himself. I know there was an incident in Holland where he tripped a mine, as he thanked my sister's dutch in-laws for making it faulty as it didn't jump out of the ground properly and he 'only' had leg injuries and survived.
He loved the RM Commandos so much that he went back in again after the war, but he got in trouble as he had a service medal he shouldn't have had at his age (like many he'd lied about his age when joining up during the war). He had to sell his medals when he had a family so I don't even know which one got him into trouble. I have a photo of A Troop, 40 Commando RM, Imtarfa Barracks, Malta in July 1949, which was his second time in the Marines and 6 months after after he had married my mum near Lympston (she was in the NAAFI there). I have no idea which troop he was with the first time he was in. I have an undated group photo marked 'Medway Studio' Chatham, only the officers have ribbons so I wonder if that might be his passing out photo?
I discovered the horrors of Sachsenhausen when I was searching online for a connection between the 'RM Commandos' and 'concentration camp' as I know my dad had nightmares about being there when one of the camps was liberated as he spoke to my mum about it one night, but she doesn't know which one it was and I haven't found anything on the internet. Does anyone know?
I have some papers that show which ships he was on, but it doesn't give much other info. I know he went to Egypt, Mexico, Palestine, Malta, Gibraltar and loads of other places with the Marines, he described the freezing cold going up the west coast of Canada to the Arctic and how ungloved hands would stick to the ships railings. It's sad to just have snippets, for example, when his ship sailed under the Forth Rail Bridge a half crown landed on the deck (thrown from a train, a good luck tradition). He reckoned it was his own good luck charm as his ship was on the way to Japan, but the trip was cancelled when they reached the Med due to the Japanese surrender. I don't know the ship or anything else about it :-(
I guess I'll have to read some of the books that have been recommended here.
cheerz
joolz
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/09/2011 02:16:04
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![[Post New]](/cdoForum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif) 23/09/2011 12:41:44
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Pete
CVA Website Archivist
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Hi Joolz
I would be most interested in seeing the photos of the Memorial Wall and updating our gallery with some of them. Other than Kenneth Macksey's book there was little published about Operation Checkmate until fairly recently. However with the help of people like our forum member from Norway, Cutstone, who has posted some excellent references to this and other raids and operations in Norway, both here and in his other messages I am glad to say that at least my own knowledge of what took place is improving.
I would also like to know a bit more about your father so can you make contact with me by email on the email address below
Regards
Pete R.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 23/09/2014 22:23:52
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Pete Rogers, son of LSgt Joe Rogers MM & nephew of TSM Ken McAllister. Both No2 Commando.
God and the Soldier, all men adore, In time of danger and not before.
When the danger is passed and all things righted, God is forgotten, and the Soldier slighted.
**** nb. I no longer monitor the pm facility **** |
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