No5 Commando Insignia

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 26/01/2009 10:51:26

Geoff has posted a number of prints of badges & insignia on the Gallery including this of No5 (V Commando).

A Yellow Hackle/plume?
I know Nos 9 & 11 had black hackles so does anyone have any info about this?
Coincidently, I recently did a search for units that wore a yellow hackle for another query and only came up with The Lancashire Fusiliers...

Nick

Ahh a hackle .My dad's got one on his tam o shanter in the pic but is it yellow?

My dad remembers the Lancs Fusiliers, they were based in Bury at the Wellington(?) barracks and the yellow hackle was part of their hat badge. There was also a pub called the Prince of wales which showed their badge & hackle, apparently it represented his feathers. The suggestion would be that it was an honour bestowed by a prince of wales.

I cant imagine a unit using a hackle without recognition, maybe it was devised by members of the Fusiliers who were attached to 5 Commando?

Pete

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 26/01/2009 00:26:44

Hi

The only information that I have concerning this is from Peter Taylor's book "Allied Special Forces Insignia 1939 - 1948. As you can see it clearly states that a golden coloured hackle was worn, however this was discontinued by 1942 due to its fragility and a tendancy to get lost.

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 26/01/2009 00:33:20

Andy,
Thanks for that - it must have been discontinued before my Dad joined No5 in '43 and, unlike Stephen Donnison's Dad,

Stephen Donnison wrote:Ahh a hackle .My dad's got one on his tam o shanter in the pic but is it yellow?

I don't think my Dad had a Tam' either!

What a great site this is - everyday sees another tiny piece of the bigger picture uncovered.

Thanks again,
Nick

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 26/01/2009 00:55:59

Hi Nic

Noticed that you were on the site and wondered if you would spot my reply, and so you have. Totally agree with your views on the usefulness of this site, the replies that Pete and yourself posted concerning my raid photo, my father's service records and Operation Collar have been invaluable in establishing as far as possible that the photo is indeed of No11 Ind Coy having taken part in Operation Collar and not as I initially thought, of a raid by No1 Commando.

Great stuff

Andy

Stephen Donnison wrote:Ahh a hackle .My dad's got one on his tam o shanter in the pic but is it yellow?

Hi Stephen,
I'd never noticed your Dad's hackle previously!
From the info Andy pointed me to, I think it must have been Yellow!

Ahem! Any news on that No5 officers photo yet? )

Nick

Hey Andy thanks for that,, I must get that book. Ive learnt soo much from all of you ,,a yellow hackle ,,wow

Hi, I came across this while searching for something else. My Father was in 3 Troop 5 Commando and his hackle was yellow, he called it saffron which is more accurate I'd say.

Andy

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 11/07/2010 04:18:50

Hi Andy

A very warm welcome to the CVA, do you have any photos of your father from his time in the Commndos, if this is the case then they would be a superb addition to the gallery. If you do have any photos, copies of documents etc that you would like to upload, but are a little unsure as to how to go about this, then I or others on this site would be only to glad to do this on your behalf.
I don't know if you are aware of the fact, but you can apply for a copy of your father's records, the following link will take you to the section of the forum where the required Army application forms can be downloaded. I and quite a few others on this site have already done this and received copies of some very interesting original army documents. The process is quite straight forward and if you are applying for the records of a relative only costs £30.

http://www.veterans-uk.info/recordsmedalsbadges.htm

I hope you don't mind me asking, but you didn't mention your father's name or indeed whether he is still alive. I have got a number of copies of a publication that was produced by the members of 3 Commando brigade (No's 1 - 5 Army Commando and No' 42 - 44 RM Cmd) while they were in India / Burma. This was called the Third Jungle Book each issue contains a section called Troop Notes, if you could state your father's name I will have a look in these to see if he is mentioned, also other members or visitors to this site may recognise or remember him.

Cheers Andy

Thank you for the warm welcome Andy, a chance happening on this site has already borne fruit for me

My Father was Andy Dalziel, born 30/07/17 in Cumnock, Ayrshire. He was in the TAs prewar and mobilised at the outbreak, joining No 5 when it was formed. He married in Falmouth in January 1942 (where he settled after the war) and was seriously wounded in Burma, seriously enough that he wasn't repatriated until 1946. He died in 1974 and it was some years before my mother was granted a war widows pension

I've actually found a photo of him (one I have as well), it's the 5 Commando pre 1942 photo. My mother died earlier this year and my brother is digitising all the family photos, when I get copies hopefully some will be of use. I do have one of him, with hackle but B&W, and I'd be delighted to upload it if you care to help :-)

If you do find any information I'd be very grateful and thanks again :-)

Andy DL ............ it's pronounced that way though nobody believes it ;-)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/07/2010 22:15:18

Hi Andy

If you send the photo to me at the highest resolution that you can, I will then upload it for you in to the No.5 gallery, could you also include any info that you have regarding this photo ie where and when it was taken. You will of course be credited as the owner and your photo will not be able to be used or otherwise reproduced without your express permission.

My email address is [email protected]

In the meantime I will have a look through the copies of the Jungle Books that I mentioned, or perhaps better still I could run you off some good quality copies of these and post them out to you. If you are interested in this offer then send me a private message with an address that you would like them sending to and I will take care of the rest.
I am actually familiar with your surname, as a Training Officer dealing with Engineering apprenticeships I have a case load of approx 45 apprentices, one of these has the exact same surname as yourself!

Let me know if you would like copies of the Third Jungle Books that I mentioned, cheers Andy

Interesting on the Hackle, my grandfather had a red one...I have his cap badge from the black watch which he joined at the outbreak of war before joining 5 at their formation...maybe this was from then?
Ill post a pic of what I have shortly!!

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 16/12/2011 21:29:52

I've been intrigued with No5's yellow hackle since I learnt that they had a hackle.

looking at the photos of No5 Cdo wearing hackles you will notice;

a. The feathers appear very dark and not at all yellow.

b. The hackle is not at all like that illustrated in Peter Taylor's book.

The reason that the hackles appear very dark is that the photographic emulsion (film) of the time was orthochromatic (ie that it is sensitive to only blue and green light. The increased blue sensitivity causes objects at the blue end of the visible spectrum to appear lighter and objects at the red end of the spectrum darker (remember photos of women whose lips appeared black - they were wearing red lipstick. On Movies filmed in this era the actors wore blue lipstick to make their lips lighter).

The feathers used in No5's hackle appear to be the cockerel neck feathers giving the hackle more of a splayed appearance, whereas those in the illustration (like the Fusiliers' hackles) I believe are made from the softer feathers of a hen and are more bunched

nick

Hi I also believe no 5 commando wore a yellow hackle. I have to dig out a picture I have of a grouping that came also with the superb V commando arm patch in Bevo weave. Cheers JB