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Payne
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Joined: 16/01/2017 19:50:25
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Can anyone tell me if all commandos were issued with a service record even if they were killed in action, my great uncle was killed in Burma and served with 44 rm Commando.

If they were is there a way of getting a copy, also of his full service history?
Pete
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Hi Susan, Yes all would have had a service record and the immediate next of kin can obtain a full copy, in this case from the Royal Navy. If anyone other than the immediate next of kin applies, only a transcript with limited detail will be provided. I believe I misunderstood a previous communication where I thought you were asking about a Commando Service Certificate which is completely different. How to make a request for a full copy of the official service record is here:

http://forum.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/179.page

For the benefit of others here is the record we have for your great uncle with the image you provided to us:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/LeonardPayne44Commando

and in our gallery here Lance Corporal Leonard Payne




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/03/2017 20:16:12


Pete Rogers, son of LSgt Joe Rogers MM & nephew of TSM Ken McAllister. Both No2 Commando.
God and the Soldier, all men adore, In time of danger and not before.
When the danger is passed and all things righted, God is forgotten, and the Soldier slighted.


**** nb. I no longer monitor the pm facility ****
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Payne
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Joined: 16/01/2017 19:50:25
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Thanks for your reply - would he have been eligible for the service certificate as well ? I am trying to get a history of his service career as there is not much info on the 44 rm Commando (I have recently bought a book that gives an account of their manoeuvres which is really interesting) but I have no idea where his military service would have begun?
Pete
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His official service record from the Royal Navy should hold details of what you require although some contain less information than others. The Commando Service Certificates were not issued by the Government. They were issued to individuals at the end of the war on a personal level as an appreciation of that individual's service in the Commandos, and were often accompanied by a letter signed by the Chief of Combined Operations.

There is a Commonwealth War Graves Commission Certificate for your Great Uncle here:

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty-details.aspx?cid=2262172&name=PAYNE,%20LEONARD%20WILLIAM

Pete Rogers, son of LSgt Joe Rogers MM & nephew of TSM Ken McAllister. Both No2 Commando.
God and the Soldier, all men adore, In time of danger and not before.
When the danger is passed and all things righted, God is forgotten, and the Soldier slighted.


**** nb. I no longer monitor the pm facility ****
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Payne
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Joined: 16/01/2017 19:50:25
Messages: 14
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Thanks for your help that'll be my next step to find out more about him 🙂
NIC
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Hi Susan,
Given the date that your great uncle was killed, it is probably that he was killed in action during 44 RM Cdo's assault on 'Pinner'...

Combined Operations Website wrote:
Kangaw

After the capture of the Myebon Peninsula the Japanese were unable to evacuate the Arakan using the many waterways. This left them with the Myobaung to Tamandu road as their only practical escape route. General Christison determined to sever this route near the village of Kangaw, which lay 8 miles inland from Myebon 'as the crow flies'. Due to the difficult terrain, a river borne approach to the village was decided upon.

On the 19th and 20th of January the assault group prepared for the attack on Kangaw. COPP teams were dispatched on a vital, but extremely hazardous mission to find suitable landing sites. In all, 50 vessels were assembled, including the Narbada and Jumna, moored off Myebon, which would provide covering fire together with a 'Z' Lighter "Enterprise" carrying four 25 pounders operated by the 18th Field Regiment Royal Artillery.

3 Commando Brigade boarded their landing craft. They headed south east from Myebon down the Theygan river turning north into the Diangbon chaung where small marker buoys had been placed by the COPP teams. It was a tortuous 27 mile route to Kangaw from their starting point in Hunters Bay with the last 18 miles along narrow, winding chaungs bordered by thick mangrove trees. As in all raids, the element of surprise was crucial, so the journey was best accomplished without alerting the enemy...

There was no sign of the enemy until the flotilla neared the landing area when shelling began. Some of the landing craft were in such poor condition that 4 were taken under tow to complete the journey.

At 13.00 hrs on 22nd January, No.1 Commando disembarked at 'George' beach under cover of an air borne smokescreen. There was no preparatory bombardment for fear of alerting the Japanese defenders to the position of the beach head. No.1 Commando advanced from the beachhead and moved to secure their initial objective, a feature known as 'Brighton' (Hill 170) .
Hill 170 lay between the Diangbon chaung and the village of Kangaw. It was a 160 ft high, wooded outcrop rising steeply out of open paddy fields. It was about 700 yards long running north to south across the narrow gap between the 'Thames' and 'Mersey' chaungs. No.1 Commando secured this position, except for a small pocket on the northern edge of the hill which held them up.

'George' beach consisted of a soft wet mud bank about 4 ft high. It was almost vertical with a strip of mangrove swamp and thick undergrowth about 15 yds wide behind. The beachhead was described as being the smallest in the world, the gap between the trees capable of taking one LCM or two LCA`s side by side - about 20 ft in all. Further inland there was thin scrub with the spikes of mangrove roots protruding about 9 inches tall and too compact to put a foot between them. The ground itself was very marshy with a criss-cross network of streams, the beds of which were a foot or more deep with soft, thick mud. This whole area had been underwater 2 days before when the COPP parties made their recces. Major Peter Young, who had temporarily taken over as Brigade Commander pending the arrival of Campbell Hardy in December, wrote,

"There was no road. The landing was through mangrove and the paddy, for about three quarters of a mile leading up to Hill 170, was swamped by the high spring tides. Even the bunds didn't make proper footpaths being broken in many places. No tanks could be got ashore or guns for the first few days, but we had air support, mediums for the Myebon area and a lighter battery and a sloop. MLs and LCs guarded the chaung"
During this time the shelling of the bridgehead continued while the beachhead came under constant, fairly accurate artillery bombardment from a few enemy guns.

No.5 Commando, followed by 42 RM Commando, landed at 'George' beach. No.5 moved in support of No.1 at Hill 170. 42 RM Commando moved forward from the beach to establish a bridgehead in the mid ground between Hill 170 and the beachhead. 44 RM Commando then landed and took over 42 RM Commando's position - who were placed in reserve holding the beachhead. 44 RM Commando were now made ready to move forward, pass through 42 RM Commando and attack another feature codenamed 'Milford'. This was a low ridge to the east of Hill 170, which they captured without opposition at 1930 hours.

Marine Wilson of 3 Troop RM Engineer Commando was their only casualty, hit in the leg and evacuated. Meantime, the tanks still needed to be landed. It was decided that 'George' beach was unsuitable as a landing beach for tanks, heavy guns and vehicles. A recce of the southern beach, 'Fox', about a mile inland on the 'Mersey', provided a suitable alternative. A bend in the chaung provided a fairly firm bank clear of undergrowth which led into a firmer paddy that, with a couple of drying days, would provide a solid foundation for a roadway.

An initial recce of the northern beach, 'Item' found a good, hard, sandy surface. This was to be followed up with recce by all the parties but they found a newly positioned Japanese machine gun post and abandoned the plan to land there. As day 1 of the operation came to an end, all Commandos were ashore and the balance of 3 Troop RM Engineer Commando remained afloat for the night in the knowledge that they would have to make the most of 'George' and 'Fox' beaches the following day. During the night the enemy counterattacked No.1 Commando from the northern tip of Hill 170 but they were beaten back after hand-to-hand fighting.

Day 2 ( 23rd Jan), 3 Troop RM Engineer Commando landed at 'George' and 'Fox' to construct landing beaches by ramping down the bank and laying Sommerfield tracks and Corduroy, a type of temporary roadway made by laying down logs and matting. The conditions for road making were very poor. Shallow trenches were dug out on both sides of the route and the spoil deposited between the two to raise the level above the water table. Further material was removed from the trenches to form a protective bund. 3 Troop RM Engineer Commando also dug ammunition pits, a difficult task because of the water table and the urgency since stores and kit were now coming ashore. The work at 'George' and 'Fox' beaches was completed over 2 days.

Day 2 also saw 3 Commando Brigade consolidate their gains. At first light the remaining enemy were cleared from Hill 170 by Nos.1 and 5 Commandos and 44 RM Commando moved forward to 'Pinner', southwest of Kangaw. Unlike Hill 170, 'Pinner' gave a good view of Kangaw and the road, the cutting of which was 3 Commando Brigade's objective.

3 Troop RM Engineer Commando supported the advance to Hill 170 'Milford' and 'Pinner' by building a road through rocks and wet ground. The appearance of a bulldozer and men with shovels, quickly received the attention of Japanese 75mm and 105mm guns. Unbeknown to the Commandos, the Japanese had moved their guns closer to 'Pinner' and retrieved ammunition from dumps they had left at the foot of the hill. On 23 January, at 20.00 hrs, the Japanese began their attack on 'Pinner' firing at close range into 44 RM Commando with a mortar barrage on their northern flank. The Commandos heard the Japanese moving into position. Shortly followed by a bright red Very flare fired into the sky from the paddy below. The attack, which involved artillery, machine guns, grenades and hand to hand combat, started in earnest.
The Japanese retreated after 8 hours by which time 44 RM Commando had suffered 26 killed and 44 wounded... but they still held 'Pinner'...


Nick

Nick Collins,

Commando Association Historical Archivist & Photographer.

Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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Julie W
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Joined: 30/03/2011 16:35:24
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Hi Susan,

Is the book you've bought called, "Achnacarry to The Arakan" by Tony Mackenzie? If not, I would thoroughly recommend you try & get hold of a copy as it is a comprehensive record of 44 RM's movements and action during WWII.

Julie

Cousin of Capt. Larry Stephens, No. 5 Commando 1943-1946
His biography is available from all good bookshops from April 2020 https://www.waterstones.com/book/its-all-in-the-mind/julie-warren/9781783528622
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Julie W
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Your great uncle is named in the book I mention above as having been killed in action in Kangaw in 1945, so Nick was right.

Julie

Cousin of Capt. Larry Stephens, No. 5 Commando 1943-1946
His biography is available from all good bookshops from April 2020 https://www.waterstones.com/book/its-all-in-the-mind/julie-warren/9781783528622
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Pete
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Joined: 23/09/2008 00:08:02
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There was an earlier message in January which is placed here to keep everything together

http://forum.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/5348.page#20187

Pete Rogers, son of LSgt Joe Rogers MM & nephew of TSM Ken McAllister. Both No2 Commando.
God and the Soldier, all men adore, In time of danger and not before.
When the danger is passed and all things righted, God is forgotten, and the Soldier slighted.


**** nb. I no longer monitor the pm facility ****
[Email]
Julie W
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Joined: 30/03/2011 16:35:24
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At least we both said the same, Pete

Cousin of Capt. Larry Stephens, No. 5 Commando 1943-1946
His biography is available from all good bookshops from April 2020 https://www.waterstones.com/book/its-all-in-the-mind/julie-warren/9781783528622
[WWW]
Pete
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Indeed we did Julie 😀

Pete Rogers, son of LSgt Joe Rogers MM & nephew of TSM Ken McAllister. Both No2 Commando.
God and the Soldier, all men adore, In time of danger and not before.
When the danger is passed and all things righted, God is forgotten, and the Soldier slighted.


**** nb. I no longer monitor the pm facility ****
[Email]
Payne
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Joined: 16/01/2017 19:50:25
Messages: 14
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Yes it was, managed to get a copy off e-bay, thanks for all your info much appreciated
 
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