Commando No 3, 6 Troop? Joe Vernon

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/09/2016 14:10:53

My Uncle, Private Charles Thomas Vernon (Joe Vernon) The South Staffordshire Regiment, No 3 Commando. They became part of the '1st Special Service Brigade' , we think 6 troop? He sadly & bravely fell on Sword Beach. The No 3 Commando we think were on LCI's we think was 289-293. (
LCI's in total were 289-293)
Journey we know of prior to Operation Over Lord :
Training in Scotland some where?
then we think quickly down to :

June 3rd C 18 -briefing of Op, June 4th C 18 for Church Parade, then June 5th C 18 Brigadier The Lord Lovat, DSO, MC addressed the whole Brigade. Then Warshas at Sea the unit emabarks on the LCI's 298-293, the FLotilla slips & ties @ Calshott. The Flotilla slips & ties up @ Stokes bay.
21;30 hrs Flotilla slip & sail in convoy with Force 'S'.
6th June Under heavy fire La Breche.Trying to find anyone that has connections, info of their journey from Commando training prior of which we believe was only few weeks before he ended up at Warshas...waiting to embark on LCI's to go tie up @ Calshot, then ties up @ Stokes bay. 21.30 hrs slip & sail in convoy with Force 'S'.

Any info on their life & the events running up to 6th June. We believe he died as he left the LCI or may be 'Fell' as he reached the beach as his LCI, we think, had been hit by high velocity shells. We do know that LCI 289 & 290 were in sinking condition.

Our dear Joe is laid to rest @ Hermanville, for ever in our hearts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/09/2016 14:28:40

Hi Suze,

Welcome to the CVA Website & forums.

I'm pleased to say that we already had your uncle on the No.3 Commando nominal roll but were you aware that we also have a photo of his last resting place?
Click on the link below to see it, then click on the image to enlarge it.

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/Commando+War+Graves+Memorials+and+Plaques/graves/France+Cemeteries/HERMANVILLE-sur-Mer+cemetery/3+cdo+graves/C_+VERNON.JPG.html

I have also looked up your uncle's record in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission - again, click on the link to view.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2337605/VERNON,%20CHARLES%20THOMAS

I see that you have some idea of Joe's service, but are you aware that you can apply to the MoD - the only custodian of WWII Service Records - for a copy of his original Service Record? There is a £30 pound admin fee but they will send a good deal of information from enlistment through to his becoming a casualty. If you wish to follow this up, I can send you the relevent forms...

We have ensured that your uncle will always be remembered on our pages by adding him to the No.3 Commando nominal roll and by uploading the photo of his gravestone to our Archive Gallery, but we always like to put a face to a name - do you have any photos of your uncle that you'd be willing to share with us and that we could upload so that he can be amongst his brother commandos again?
We'd be honoured to upload them to the Gallery if you have.

Regards,

Nick

In addition to what Nick has said, we do have some good troop photos in our gallery including an excellent one of 6 troop training for D Day in the blitzed streets of Limehouse, East London. Here is the link to those particular images:

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/3/trp+photos/3cdo+6tp/

Have you read the book Storm from the Sea by Brig Peter Young. (click on his name for more about him) The book is an excellent account of the history of No 3 Commando and gives a good description of the build up to D Day.

Thank you so much for the quick replies - we are wondering if we have the wrong troop as we seem not to be able to see him within 6 troop. But I thought I had worked it out through the Phase 1 that No 6 Troop were the on the Landing Craft that was in sinking condition & were under high velocity shells - we need to work out which troop he was in.

Thank you
S

We are getting a little confused now over what troop he was in - We thought he was in 6 troop but we are not seeing him on any of the photo;s

The address on his letter

C Troop Army wing
Holding Commando
Hermitage Camp
Wrexham
North Wales

What is C troop ?

Hope you can clarify

Suze

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/09/2016 23:14:33

Hi Suze

The Holding Commando at Wrexham is likely to have been before he joined No 3 Commando. The troop there doesn't really help with your quest about the circumstances of his death. I am interested to know why you think he was in 6 troop of No 3 Commando ? Where has this information come from ?

Pete

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 05/09/2016 21:27:17

Hi
I have attached photos of Joe
Not sure where they are of When he was in South staffs or Commando troop?

I have put a close up on. He is the Private standing.

Sorry submitted before I had finished
here are another two photos of him

but again uncertain what these are of

Hope you can help.

I will go through the information we have to explain my reasoning behind thinking it was 6 troop

Suzanne

Hi Suze,

Great photos - thanks.
I would suggest that both photos were taken around the same time - certainly the Commanding Officer and the Sergeant Major appear in both photos...

Looking at the cap badges, it would appear that there are a variety of badges - have a look at Joe's and then compare his with the others - although the resolution of the photos isn't good enough to identify individual badges, I think it's fair to say that it is fairly obvious that there are many different shaped badges...

Again it is difficult to be definate but it does appear that the men are wearing round badges on their sleeves - probably the Combined Ops badge...

Looking at the road sign on the photo of the parade, it indicates that Wrexham is straight on with Chester to the left and Oswestry to the right - this can only mean that the photo was taken somewhere west of Wrexham.

Given these snippets of information I will say that the photos were taken whiler Joe was in the Commandos and, possibly, whilst he was at the HOC (Holding Operational Commando) Wrexham.

Nick

Hi All,

Were not road signs taken down in 1940,so as not to aid the enemy.

Graham

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 06/09/2016 00:11:07

In an effort to pinpoint the photo of the parade, I have looked at the roads shown on the road sign, indicating a crossroads, on the photo...

The B5100 no longer exist as a single road, but as two seperate roads either side of Wrexham town centre!

However, originally it connected the A540 (now the A483) to itself either side of the town centre, thus providing a western bypass. It was later extended clockwise to the A534 and then anticlockwise to the A525, thus going round two-thirds of the town centre.
Given that the B5100 formed a town-centre bypass it was therefore easily upgraded to Class I status.
By the 1970s the section of road joining the two A483 radials (i.e. the original section of the B5100) had become an A-road, thus leaving the B5100 as two unconnected sections. This upgraded section is now numbered A5152.

The A5152 runs north to south - on the western side of the Wrexham Town Centre

During the 1940s the A541 started by St Asaph Cathedral and headed south east from Mold to Wrexham. The roads enters the outskirts of Wrexham where it crosses the A483 at a grade-separated junction on the north west side of Wrexham.
Today the road runs to the Wrexham ring road - the A5152 - where it terminates...

My belief is that the photo was taken somewhere on Regent Street in Wrexham and that the building in the background on the right of the photo is Brynhyfryd, No.2 Grosvenor Road, Wrexham.

Nick

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 09/09/2016 10:04:58

Nice work Nick.

Based on Nick's work, I contacted Graham Lloyd of Wrexham History www.wrexham-history.co.uk, asking if the photo was in the location Nick thought.

He speedily replied with

I love a challenge, but this was a little easy. You are spot on with your location [Nicks location ! -markh]. The buildings have infact been demolished.
To the left of the picture once stood a temperance hotel called Trevors Hotel which was demolished in the early 1960s. The following picture shows the same door decoration.

See photo of Trevors Hotel here - it will be added to the Wrexham History site.

https://www.facebook.com/WrexhamHistory/photos/a.529431130436512.1073741828.529425687103723/914707898575498/?type=3&theater

[Update 2]
Link to Photo now on Wrexham History website http://www.wrexham-history.com/?attachment_id=642

So from streetview, the 1960s style building is on the site of the Trevors Hotel, with the building in the background looking like the one in the picture from SuzeV123, with

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0480503,-2.999418,3a,75y,77.53h,84.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRNiRPEuZ74nSPPGqm6zmJQ!2e0!5s20090301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

[Update]
It just occurred to me, if you orient streetview to be in the direction of the marchers, as below, then if you can ignore the modern cars, street signs etc. you can see some of the period buildings and imagine you are on that march in 1944..
It would appear to be spring/Summer from the tree foliage. If you keep moving forward you end up at the railway station.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0474773,-2.9980732,3a,75y,297.85h,87.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sppWL0yHDnPuWhAYsyHaMVA!2e0!5s20090301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

PS Wrexham History is going to add something on the HOC at Wrexham to their site.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 08/09/2016 14:04:18

Wow you guys are quick to clarify!
I'm in the process of working through my info as to why I think Joe was in Troop 6 No 3, I'm out and about st moment but what I can recall is we know he went from Warsash & was in Wrexham Holding Commondo Depot ( after your help) he was in fact posted to No 3 in May 1944 then died on 06th !!!!
So what we are trying to salvage from his war records that we sent off for his history of;

Queens ITC NO 13. This is the training but what where?
He then went to HQ ?
Then Queens Regiment 70th??
Then South Staffs
Then training as commando to Scotland then to wrexham
Next question also How & when do they sort Troop no?
Where will it have his troop no recorded?? We can't find it!
Then did they record LCI NUMBERS,
I have it noted No 3 were on Lci 289-293
Queen Red/COD PETER/ROGER
WEST FKANK SWORD
WERE THEY PHASE ONE OR TWO AS LITERATURE WE ARE READING DIFFERS!
Peter Young was Lt Col. But HOW DO WE FUND OUT WHO WAS COMMANDING OFFICER ON HIS LCI??

Lots questions & challenge!!
Ps I did read that new recruits went to ArancEnny training 6 weeks then marched to Speane Brudge when received their berets! Travelled rail to Wrexham & there he waited I believe for his fate.
Hope you guys can work your wY through this!!!
Some where in all of his history he was in Royal artillery as a gunner where on eRth does that fit in his is short military career - he ran away at 16 and ended up relegated to reserves until older enough ! Picture enclosed
OBJECTIVES:
1) to find his LCI NO
2) clArify war record history
3) to try to find photos as we only have 3.

Hoping & praying

Hi Mark,
thanks for your work on this - I was absolutely sure that the building was Brynhyfryd, No.2 Grosvenor Road and knew that the building (now revealed as Trevor's Hotel) had been demolished but, try as I might, I could not find a photo of it.
I did however find another building a few streets away which featured the same archaeological features - but it was not Trevor's Hotel...
This frustrates me and so I'm very pleased that the Wrexham History Site has now provided a photo - which even shows the same road sign shown on Suze's photo and which allowed me to pinpoint where the photo was taken.

Cheers,
Nick