Fus Joseph Ball, No4 Cdo

I have received an email from Nigel Ball, nephew of Fusilier Ball.

Nigel wrote:Dear Sir,

I stumbled across your website and found an image of the grave of my uncle, Joseph Ball, 6016394 Royal Irish Fusiliers and No 4 Commando. I had known that he was buried in that area, so therefore believe it must be him. I know nothing about him, and none of the older generation of my family are still alive.

Would you know if there are any veterans from this unit, who may have known my uncle, still alive? I am also intrigued in that the date of death is June 1945, after the end of the war. Would the Association have any record of how he died?

Thanks for your website. Joseph's brother, my father, died young and with an unfulfilled ambition to visit his grave, so it is wonderful I can see the headstone so easily.

Nigel Ball

Joseph is Remembered with honour in BERGEN-OP-ZOOM WAR CEMETERY.
So far the sources I have available to me merely list Joseph as having 'Died' on the 3rd June 1945.

Nick

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 19/11/2011 00:26:58

Joseph Ball is mentioned in Jimmy Dunning's book The Fighting Fourth. In there it states that he died when accidentally shot by a Dutch soldier. He was in fact the last No.4 Commando soldier to be killed on 'active' service.

He was in 1 troop of No.4 Commando and is mentioned in this troop list in our gallery:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/nominal+rolls/4+cdo+nom+roll/1+troop+4+commando+nominal+roll+late+44+after+walcheren+Peter+cooper.jpg.html

In Memory of Fusilier JOSEPH BALL
6016394, Royal Irish Fusiliers and No. 4, Commando
who died age 23 on 03 June 1945
Remembered with honour BERGEN-OP-ZOOM WAR CEMETERY

How sad my Dutch friend Jochem and I were at Bergen op Zoom taking pictures of No4 Commando graves of those killed in action in Flushing. This is the cemetery where my Dad Gunner Bill Harvey of No4 was buried. The next time I am out I will place a cross at Joseph Ball's grave.

Bill

Hi Bill,

Bill Harvey wrote:How sad my Dutch friend Jochem and I were at Bergen op Zoom taking pictures of No4 Commando graves of those killed in action in Flushing. This is the cemetery where my Dad Gunner Bill Harvey of No4 was buried. The next time I am out I will place a cross at Joseph Ball's grave.

Bill

Thank you for that - I will let Nigel know, I'm sure he and his family will be extremely grateful

Nigel Ball wrote:Thank you very much for the time you have spent on this. It is very appreciated. Knowing something about Uncle Joe means that his memory will be easier to pass on to my own children. My sister was very tearful when she saw the image on the website and is planning to visit the grave, as our father had wanted to do.

Joe's brother, Len, was decorated with the DSM for his part in the St Nazaire raid (he was in the navy and is mentioned in the Lucas Phillips book). We were told about Len, but nobody ever mentioned Joe. Perhaps this was because of distress about the nature of his death. Until hearig from you, all I had of Joe was an inherited picture of a small group of people, a Dutch family I believe, standing around his fresh grave.

Once again, very many thanks.

Nigel

God Bless,
Nick

Nick

Do you want me to send the copy of the No4 Commando Roll of honour? I have the front and inside back on my computer. If he would like this PM his email to me.

Bill

I live perhaps a 10 minutes drive from the Bergen op Zoom cemetery. It will therefore be no problem at all for me to visit Joseph Ball's grave or any other Commando grave or graves for that matter. If any of the relatives of the Commandos buried there would wish me to do so, please let me know.

I am not in the possession of the wooden crosses which are normaly used. Perhaps someone could let me know where I could get these overhere? Otherwise I will ask at the cemetery where I could get them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 21/11/2011 01:28:57

For Nigel's information there is a very good photo of, and information about, Joe's brother, Stoker Len Ball, in the book Storming St Nazaire, by James Dorrian who is a member of the CVA. Very briefly for others who may not know, Len was on board ML 262 during the raid. The ML caught fire and was abandoned after being hit on numerous occasions by enemy gunfire. Len was taken POW. He was later awarded the DSM for his gallantry during the raid.

Jack

Just sent you a PM have cross just need your address. I put your address in a safe place and cannot find it.

Bill

Bill,

I just sent you an pm back with my address. Thanks for sending the cross.

Yesterday I have sent an email to a lady of the Commenwealth War Graves Commission with the question where I can get the crosses overhere. As soon as I do have an answer I will let you all know.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 13/12/2011 02:28:21

At work today a colleague of mine was browsing a Military Interest Website when he called me across and said: "You're interested in The Commandos, have you seen this photo?"

The photo, posted in 2004, just bore the caption: 6016394 FUSILIER JOSEPH BALL, ROYAL IRISH FUSILIERS ( 4 COMMANDO). Holland.

By some extraordinary coincidence, when I returned home, I found an email from Nigel with the second photo showing Joe's grave with the Dutch family.

If possible, Nigel would like to identify the Commando Sgt at Joe's graveside.

Last week I put a small wooden cross sent to me by Bill Harvey on the grave of Joseph Ball. The photos I made of it were sent to Julia, the sister of Nigel. As Nigel had written in a post that he only had a picture of the grave of Joseph with a Dutch family standing by it, I asked for this photo to be send to me as I was thinking that the family could well be the family where Joseph was billeted. My idea, which has been approved by Julia an Nigel, is to send it to the local newspaper in Bergen op Zoom asking them to publish it with the question if there are people who know the family. With any luck this might be succesful and than it will perhaps also be known who the sergeant is. To be honest I am a bit in doubt if he is a Commando as I do not recognize the badges on his sleeve as being commando. But I could be wrong there.

I am also trying to find out where the photo was taken. Presuming that my information is correct the Bergen op Zoom War Cemetery wasn't opened until 1969. Which I think is a bit late but then again it takes some time to arrange and develop a cemetery I suppose. As Bill said in an earlier message, the men killed during the Walcheren operation were initially buried at a place called Biervliet and later re-buried at Bergen op Zoom. So was the photo taken at Biervliet? If so, then were are the other graves? There aren't any. Looking at the photo you will notice a lot of trees and bushes. The cemetery at Bergen op Zoom is surrounded with them, so it could be taken there. Was Joseph perhaps one of the first, if not the first to be buried there? All things to find out! I'll keep you all posted.

Hi Jack

Joseph Ball was not buried at Biervliet as I have the list of all who were buried there. My Dad was re-buried in Bergen op Zoom on 5 June 1946 when all the temporary burial grounds were cleared. I can also confirm that Fus. Joseph Ball was in No4 Commando and is on the roll of honour. The CWGC record his death as 3 June 1945 so it is possible that he was buried in a temporary burial ground. Hope this helps.

Bill

Hi Jack

The soldier at the graveside is he Dutch? It does say that in Maj Dunnings book that he was shot by a Dutch soldier.

Bill

Hi Jack

If my memory serves me No4 Commando moved on the 30 March 1945 to Bergen op Zoom so your search there may be good. The CWGC can supply information to relatives although it takes time. So the family may be able to find where the origional grave was. The CWGC was where I discovered that my Dad had been buried at Biervliet.

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for your information on the fact that Joseph Ball was not buried at Biervliet. I already thought so as on the photos are no other graves to be seen. It could well be that the soldier on the photo is Dutch. Something to find out.

Thanks for your advice of contacting the CWGC. If they are able to provide information about were the original grave was, than they can perhaps also provide information on the location of the original graves in Holland that are on the photos that were recently posted by Pete.

I have sent an email to a local history group but they didn't know anything about the burial site. They gave me a contact with an other group; perhaps that they know something about it. I will also get in touch with the town archive of Bergen op Zoom to find out if they know something.