History of Commando Green Beret and Insignia?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 26/08/2007 15:11:58

Hi everyone,

Does anyone have any idea where and when the Green Beret was introduced as headgear for the Commando's :?:

Am I using ther right terminology, headgear or headdress :?:

My avatar has a Tam O'Shanter with VI on it for 6 Commando, did other Commando groups have this as well :?: This headgear may be 1940-41.

Also the badges and shoulder flashes, were they just plain Commando to start with and then numbers added as the groups increased, and was it roman numerals or modern or both :?:

Am I correct in the servicemens original Regiment Badge was worn by Army Commando's :?:

Was there never an Army Commando Regiment untill it became Royal Marine :?:

Was Combined Ops ever described as a Regiment :?:

Apologies for lots of :?: :?: :?: but once I started thinking of a question, another jumped up

Brightens the writing up though :D

Colin

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 26/08/2007 17:25:45

Hi Colin
Welcome to the forums. Please see the features page on this site for the Green Beret answer.
The Tam O'shanter I believe was unique to number 6Cdo.

The arm flashes changed over time each unit evolving slightly differently read 'Allied Special Forces Insignia' by Peter Taylor.

The Army Commandos units individuals wore their original Regt Badge on the Beret.

The Original Commandos were Army Commando Units formed from the Independent Companies in 1940 the first RM Commando No 40 was formed 1942. WW2 Army Cdo units were disbanded in 1945/6 the RM commandos units continued. Both Army Cdo and RM Cdo units are operating today.

Combined Operations was a 'Command' as in 'South East Asia Command'

'Bomber Command' RAF etc.

Hope this is useful .........anybody got any corrections etc .....feel free.

Regards
John m

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/08/2007 07:23:52

Hi John,

Many thanks for your response and the confirmation of Tam O'Shanter being used by 6 Cdo.

Any idea how Tam O'Shanter was chosen? I'd read that it was Argyll Rgt head dress. Interested in the historical link between 6 Cdo and the Tam O'Shanter.

You mention Army Cdo today, who are they :?: And what did 6 Cdo become after disbandment, especially 101 Troop :?:
I am informed that they were Special Ops during WW2.

What is the present equivalent of 6 Cdo 101 Troop :?:

In a previous post, I have submitted that 40 RM Cdo were borne from 'A' Commando involved at Dieppe 19 August 1942, to their official redesignation 2 October 1942 as Royal Marine 40 Commando.

Regards,

Colin

Hello Again Colin

Among todays Army Commando Units are 59 Cdo (Royal Engineers) 29 Cdo (Royal Artilliary) and Cdo Logistics Regt. These all are a part of 3 Cdo Brigade.

6Cdo like all other Army Cdo units in WW2 ceased to exist after disbandment.

As far as I can make out 101 Troop morphed into the Early SBS (Special Boat Section) and this as you know is still in operation today.

Many detachments of men from all of the WW2 Cdo units were used in all sorts of new ideas as they formed new ways of taking thew war to the enemy. All of todays 'Elite Units' SBS SAS the Paras etc owe thier heritage to these first Commando units of the second world war.

From a military sense this heritage as become historically very important.

I am pleased to help in your research but please double check all this and any corrections or mistakes that any one can add to this discussion please do so.

Best regards
John M

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/08/2007 18:50:40

Hi John,

I agree, its great that a Forum like this allows anyone with an interest to ask questions to try and unravel the mysteries of the Commando ethic and operation and, to help us understand the pride, dignity and courage of those who served in the various Commando units.

It's like a Pandora's Box once you delve into the Commando world, there's no telling where you'll end up. Long may it continue

Regards,

Colin

'lo,
Quote (Features):
No 1 Commando took the beret into use just prior to their involvement in operation ?Torch? in November 1942. For the first time the Green Beret was seen on the battle field proudly worn by the men of No. 1 Commando. The rest as they say is history.

However, I learned that N°4 (Belgian) Troop of N°10 IA Cdo got their beret in august of 1942 :?:

So what's wrong?

Hello Jcb

We are always open to new info etc.

Please give the reference for your info re No 4 troop 10IA Commando and the green beret.

Regards
John M

Hello

I think than 4 cdo received green beret in september 42.

stéphane

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/12/2007 18:25:22

Isn't there an Army Council Instruction about the green beret?
PS: I'm still searching in my library to find the reference. It's somewhere...
Eh Steph... I was talking about N°10 Commando and the 4th Troop.

Hi Everyone

According to my research:

Combined Op War Diaries narrative:
Quote:

'The next phase was the CO's decision to first seek the approval of the commander SSB Bob Laycock for No 1 Cdo to take into use the Green Beret.
Naturally agreement was forthcoming. Wherupon as a gesture ,Bob Laycock said that when stock were available No 1 Commando would be issued with the beret first. The Green beret was taken into use by No 1 Cdo prior to them embarking for operation 'Torch' in November 1942.'

Regards
John M

Hi Again

Please refer here:

http://www.stnazairesociety.org/Archives/greenberet.html

Regards
John M

Reference: (it's in Dutch)
Het Regiment Commando van 1942 tot 1952, by Guy de Pierpont & André Lefèvre, PL édition, page 41...
The book is about the Belgian commandos. They went to Achnacarry 14/08/1942 > 3/09/1942. In his speech on 18/08 lt-col Vaughan mentions the green beret. When they leave Achnacarry on 3/09/1942 they get their beret. That's all I know.

Sorry if my English is not perfect. :wink:

Thanks jcb for that reference.

Without knowing the source of the authors info it is difficult to draw any conclusions.

The narrative in the WD's says it was discussed in the summer of 1942. your date states that 10IA Cdo were to be issued with their beret on 3/9/1942.

So it is still possible for No 1 Cdo to have been issued with beret's already before this date. Certainly the first written evidence of the beret being worn in battle is No 1 Cdo in the North Africa landings.

From my own research experience I know that dates and such can get confused even by people who were actually taking part in the various actions.

Thanks for this info it is certainly something worth keeping in mind for future resolution if possible.

Best regards

John M

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 16/04/2012 22:12:16

Hi all

This document was found amongst the papers belonging to the late Eric Groves MM of No.2 Commando. It is a copy of Mountbatten's request for distinctive head-dress for the Special Service Bde. dated 1st May 1942 sent to the Under Secretary of State for War.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/Commando+Badges+and+Memorabilia/green+beret/

As if by magic....