Messages posted by: James J.C. O'Connell

Peter,
Many thanks. I photocopied what files there were at TNA for No. 14 Cdo and am in Canada now pursuing the survivors. The group I'm actually looking for predates No. 14 Cdo, but I'm hoping some of No. 14's men began their Special Service careers in this earlier group....pends. No. 14 had an interesting job....didn't fully come to fruition, but I'm hoping there are links to 1941 to be uncovered.
Thank you again.
Jeff

Good Morning All,

As many of you no doubt know I am pursuing leads of Canadians serving in the Commandos with particular emphasis on 1941.

I've just spent 3 weeks in the UK...two weeks of which were spent at the National Archives (Kew). Whew....what a place.

About an hour before closing on my last day there I discovered a "snippet" of information buried in a COS Committee War Cabinet document dtd August 6th 1940. The topic was "Raiding Operations". There were brief progress reports on the following.

a. Training of Regular Formations
b. Training of Independent Companies
c. Training and organisation of Commandos
d. Special equipment for combined operations
e. Parachute troops
f. Scope of Raiding Operations.

In section (b) there were two paragraphs about Independent Companies (IC) followed by the followed stand-alone sentence....still under the IC heading and before the Commando section.

"It was hoped that a Ski Company raised in Canada would be available this winter for operations in Norway" (Winter 1940).

My source mentions his group, consisting of about a hundred men recruited for "Special Service with HM Forces" from units all over Canada, trained in December 1940-January 1941 in various raiding techniques, which we are all familiar with as Commando training, and which I've mentioned in other posts. He also said they were trained as ski troops and rumor had it they were bound for Scandinavia.

My gut feeling is that this Canadian "Independent Company" likely was never used as intended, but probably provided personnel for existing British units (probably Commandos as the ICs faded out). I'd love to say this was an organic Canadian unit per se, but I have no evidence of that to date. I'm in the Canadian Archives in Ottawa daily trying to dredge something up.

I will certainly keep you posted and will scan the document when I get home and have ready access to a scanner. I'll post it to CVA following that.

Thanks for your patience with this quest.....it is a REAL pain in the ass...so close, but yet...

Jeff

Pete,
Is Ron Chung still alive?
Jeff

Does anyone have knowledge of the aforementioned Commando? I believe he was on the 1st Lofoten Raid (Sgt) and later at Sark apparently. Any nominal roll or other document showing who he was attached to between January and May 1941 would be fantastic.

Jeff

Terry,
Are you still out there? Very intriguing stuff. Sent several PMs with no reply. Please drop me a note when you have time. I'm in the UK now and will be at Kew for two weeks starting tomorrow or so (Jan 3rd). I'll be happy to assist you with names/operations, etc. if you'd like.
Happy Holidays,
Jeff

Gentlemen,

My research into my father's Commando service continues and is beginning to show positive results from German records and elsewhere. Your advice thus far has been very helpful . Here is the latest.

1. I have come across a photo which says its taken enroute the Lofoten Islands March 1941 (OPERATION CLAYMORE). I am still trying to confirm this.
Let's assume this is correct for the time being.

2. One of the three men is identified (by his son who owns the picture). The other two men are not. One of these two looks like me...when I was 20....or more accurately...I look like him....I was initially 50/50 on the photo until I wrote the owner. He examined the inscription on the back of the photo which identified the man as "Jim"...no unit, no surname, etc.

3. The time frame matches, the theater of operations matches, the photo looks close and the name matches. I'm checking with the owner to see if he has any other photos or identifying information.

4. Here's my question: Does anyone have a copy of a nominal roll for No. 3 and 4 Commando (or Special Service Battalions) of the period. I don't care what came after May 1941....I need a nominal roll for this OPERATION.

5. Lastly, were there any other Special Service troops other than Norwegians on this raid?

6. Yes, I know, its a long shot. I'll know more after I hear from the photos owner.

VBR,

Jeff

Good Question!

I hope to have a similar battery of documents if we can find the thread between the WO and other Canadian Government Gen. McNaughten refers to. He was saying no to using the troops already in the UK, but left the door open for follow on troops from Canada if the government concurred. I expect that second wave was what the group I'm seeking was part of. Pends. More as/if I have it.

Jeff

Ladies and Gentlemen,
With luck I will have attached a series of documents that may not have been seen by folks here before. At worst, I'm beating a dead horse....again.

Official correspondence dtd June and July 1940.

1. Proposal by WO to seek Volunteers for Special Servce (probably old news to everyone here).
2. Ltr from WO to Canadian Military HQ, London seeking volunteers from the Dominions for "irregular commandos".
3. Ltr from CMHQ to WO acknowledging receipt of above ltr concerning use of Canadian Forces.
4. Ltr from MGen McNaughton, GOC, Cdn Forces, UK to CMHQ to confine efforts at present to regular forces.
5. Ltr from CMHQ to WO with GOC Cdn Forces, UK reply.

I am still pursuing this thread. There was recruiting going on in Canada later and I am seeking documents to this effect.

Jeff

Thanks Nick,

Ironically, I spoke to Julie Williams just today. I've gotten some good information about their dbase limitations and nuances of the query capabilities. I gave her the anecdotal information I had (as background only). I also told her that I was hot-on-the-trail of a fellow that I have every reason to believe was killed, along with 2 others, in Norway o/a March/April 1941.

Unbeknownst to me, there are dozens of burials in Norway and even some which are unidentified which may provide a plausible explanation of why this man isn't on the Roll of Honour. I have an eye-witness account of his death and it is highly unlikely his body was recovered or identifiable.

Whether this man and his mates were Commandos or belonged to some other group "visiting the continent" remains to be seen. I'm working with locals in Essex to find out if the man I've located in records is the Father. If so, I will work the family tree and any potential living siblings to see if I can determine his name, date of death, military unit, etc.

Its a long-shot, but its a shot. If I hadn't been burned before "by sure things" I'd sound more optimistic. Let's say I'm cautiously optimistic and keep our fingers crossed.

Thank you for passing me the information.

Best,

Jeff

Nick,

Thank you for the best explanation to date on the whys and wherefores of the Commando official records (sic). I thought it was just a Canadian problem. This makes me feel a little better.

I hope to have evidence or at least make significant progress toward, adding another man to the Roll of Honour. I hope to meet with CWGC between Christmas and New Year's to discuss the sort of data they require to make this happen. Still, a long way to go. I will keep you posted if anything significant, positive or negative, arises.

Best,

Jeff

Gentlemen,

I'm sorry, the term I meant to use was "Nominal Rolls". I see people on this site and others refer to them and assumed there was some sort of a comprehensive unit roster, but perhaps these Rolls aren't as comprehensive or complete as I had hoped.

I'm familiar with the CWGC Roll of Honour and hope to visit with CWGC in December.

Thank you again.

Jeff

Nic, All,

When looking at official rolls, what, if anything, would reveal a man's nationality to an observer? Parent regiment I would assume. Anything else?

No. 14 Cdo had some obvious Canadians as you've mentioned.

If there were Canadians in....say No. 3 Cdo.... would they necessarily show up as Canadians?

I'm coming to Britain for Christmas and New Year's. I believe I have found my Dad's mate's Father (deceased of course), but that would at least tie a few things together. Will be seeking other family members, if any.

Best,

Jeff

Nick, All,
My father's limited correspondence to me on this topic does include a few "hard points" which ought to be verifiable; the death of his friend should be one, but thus far has proven elusive. I have attached another excerpt from his letter below which I took from the original handwritten letter and typed it into a word document for inclusion here.

I do not find it all that unusual as the files are full of personnel being killed in training, but think you'll agree that anyone in this particular camp at the time will have heard this story and that in itself may help to pinpoint which camp it was in, a rough time, and maybe a unit designation.

Excerpt from L/Cpl James F. Connell's letter of July 1976 to his son Jeff:

In succeeding days we were shipped to western Newfoundland where the country is barren, cool and rugged, and where we participated in beach assaults, cliff scaling, and small scale raids. Then to Iceland, where we did all over again. Finally, by troop transport to western Scotland where we wound up in first one then another camp devoted full-time to hit and run operations, rigorous physical training, judo, weapons training of all types, explosives, the works. Compared to what we had done in Canada, this was the real thing. Before a particular judo class began one morning, a very proper British Colonel addressed us with these words: ?Gentlemen, when you entered this post, you left the rules of the Marquis of Queensbury behind you. Here you will learn to fight like an animal, because your enemy is an animal. He has disregarded all of the rules of fair play and decency. So will you. Either you or he will survive close combat. Use your knife quickly and accurately. You will use a handful of sand to blind him, a rock to brain him, your heel to crush his throat, crush his face; any means gentlemen to eliminate him quickly. I?m sure you have the desire to reach a ripe old age. Judo combat is not a game. Your first thought will be to quickly erase your enemy. Do not rough and tumble for fun using these methods as horseplay.? I recall several American officers attending demonstrations in judo one day (the U.S. was not in the war yet); when this cocky first Lt. bragged that he could throw our NCO instructor who was a whiz at this type of fighting. The Sgt did not want to take on the Lt., since he sounded and acted like a blowhard. The Colonel tried to talk the Lt. out of it, but things got a bit nasty, and almost out of hand. The Colonel nodded to the Sgt, and the Lt stepped on the stage like someone looking to have some fun. The Sgt was as quick as greased lightning. Instinctively he had a quick hammerlock on the Lt's windpipe, and the Lt. went limp. The Sgt turned him loose and knelt to revive him. He stood at attention and said, ?Sir, this officer is dead.? We all knew this would happen, but the Lt. was cocksure he could win. He was shipped home in a box!

If you have any contacts with veterans of this period (January 1941) this story may resonate with them. I doubt its in any file, but it may be in someone's head.

v/r

Jeff

Nic,
Thank you very much for that very interesting post. I liken this research, and have for years, to "peeling an onion". Seems I have found the right metaphor. The comments from the C.O. are interesting and makes sense...really good stuff. I'm inclined to believe that No.14 may have started well before or that men from other earlier groups became the nucleus for it.

Dad mentions ski training near Hudson Bay as part of their initial training in Canada (December 1940) as well as opposed landings from every conceivable type of craft along the east coast of Canada before shipping out to Scotland. They lost a few guys in training due to live fire exercises on these landings. The British Officers gave them a chance to withdraw but no one did at that late stage. He also said it would get much worse and it did. Because of the skiing they naturally assumed they were going to Scandinavia. Dad made no mention of actually skiing on operations, but it was definitely part of the training.

In 1999 I worked my way through the PRO Kew Archives...amateurishly to be sure, but what an interesting read. Out of sheer frustration I finally headed to Scotland "to get some air". I knew Dad had been to Scotland and needed to "get there". Ironically, it was during January and February, the same months he had been in training. I didn't know where Dad trained, but assumed the west coast (Arasaig, etc). I did make an eventful side trip to Glenmore Lodge in the Cairngorms (a later story which you will find haunting) then went on to Oslo, Stockholm, Karuna (Sweden) and to Narvik on the train. Dad mentioned a railroad near Narvik and knowing its use decided I needed to cross over from Sweden on the train for myself to get the lay of the land.

I met a number of interesting Norwegian SOE men who confirmed there were many more raids than the records tell. These were likely SOE not strictly CDO raids, but they came from the UK and no doubt contained CDOs or CDO-trained personnel.

Upon returning to Oslo an appointment had been made for me to interview a number of Kompani Linge men in their mess in Oslo (near the Resistence Museum). Many of these were trained at Glenmore Lodge in Aviemore....I had just spent two nights in the hostel there in the old lodge a week previously so we chatted about their training there. What a group!

Several of the men sat and chatted with me and the most engaging apologized and said "Jeff, I'm sorry but I don't recall any Americans being there when I was there" (I'm one of those pesky American you see, but a fierce Anglophile). I quickly corrected him and said that while my Father was indeed an American he was actually in the Canadian Army having volunteered before the U.S. entered the war. He had assumed that because I was an American that we were looking for American soldiers.

At the mention of Canadians this delightful little man whipped his head up to stare at me full in the face (I'll never forget the look of intensity in his eyes). "What did you say?" he said. Taken aback, I said I was looking for a Canadian group not Americans. At this he almost came out of his seat with excitement saying "Jeff the group immediately preceding mine WERE Canadians". Bear in mind that up to this point I hadn't mentioned the year or the month Dad was training in Scotland nor when he said he "graduated". I intentionally did not mention it so as not to put ideas in anyone's heads. I asked him specifically when he arrived at Glenmore Lodge; "at the beginning of February 1941" he said. "Are you sure?" At this he was adamant...."Yes, at the first of February 1941....without question".

My Dad's letter tells me he spent time in two camps in Scotland but he didn't say where, but that his "group" graduated "at the end of January 1941 and began raiding shortly thereafter". I always assumed one of the two to be in the west to take advantage of the rugged coastline to practice landings, etc. The other I was never sure of. This Norwegian SOE man went on to explain how it was he was so sure it was Canadians at Glenmore Lodge. He said there were a few names still "taped" on lockers, a few bits of kit left and that the Canadians had made a none-to- positive impact on the locals....he was 100% sure the group immediately prior to him were Canadians and said so...."it must have been the same group".

This, to date, is the most tangible evidence of this group being where Dad said they were and when. Glenmore Lodge was an SOE STS for Norwegian SOE personnel and ostensibly for others going to operate there for any length of time. This due to the climatic conditions in the Cairngorms I'm told.

There are a few more tidbits to share, but work is looming, but I will leave you with this.

Last night on a post (WW2talk) I received a note from a researcher saying that there are SOE personnel files for a John Henderson and a John Cameron Henderson. One is open and one is closed until 2023. One man would've been 36 at the time. His file is open and I will contact PRO Kew today to try to get a copy. The other man would've been almost 20 at the time and his is closed, but parts may be available. The researcher didn't get the impression either man was killed during the war, but would check further. I'm hopeful, but not optimistic. This sort of thing has happened before, but what a coincidence; TWO John Henderson's in SOE personnel files? I'd have been surprised with one. Spooky.

More to follow and thank you again for your efforts and thoughts. Input like yours keeps me going.

Jeff

Folks,

What follows sounds tongue in cheek; it isn't. I'm trying very hard to follow a group of Canadian Commandos from Canada to Scotland and beyond and I can find neither hide nor hair of them consistently. Canadian records aren't much help to date....practically useless really. I'm looking for ANY plausible explanation and whatever spoor you can put me onto....however faint.

Of particular value would be any early WWII CDO veterans who might have first-hand knowledge they are willing to share. I understand their reluctance, but if any are willing please share this post with them. Here we go.

Let's say its Scotland in January 1941.

A troop of about 36 Canadians (likely 2-3 times this many) came over from Canada where their Commando training had begun in Ontario, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and then Iceland beginning in late December 1940. They had been selected and asked if they'd like to volunteer in Canada by British Officers and NCOs expressly for "Special Service with HM Forces". I'm sure a number said no...at least 100 said yes.

After arriving in Scotland they spent almost a month in one or two camps dedicated to training for hit and run operations and by the end of January 1941 they graduated. At least one of them (my Dad, L/Cpl James F. Connell) began operations thereafter.

Are newly "graduated" commandos kept together and if so what is the unit called? There's no doubt there were Canadians (and other non-UK personnel) in the Commandos early on, but for any number of reasons their paperwork is not always in order and they are a beast to follow.

Do new arrivals get sent to existing CDOs one by one as existing unit needs demand, is it en masse or in small groups? My Dad's best mate was British which tells me the units must have been "composite", but I'd like to hear someone else confirm the practice (whatever it was).

As Commando experts and a very knowledgeable group here on CVA you will know, as I do, that there "were very few raids during this period" and nowhere near the 9 my Dad recalls (8 in Norway and 1 in the Walcheren area of Holland) between Feb 41 and May 41.

I'm not talking about the raids you and I have read about. I'm talking about those raids that the veterans won't talk about, but that we've all heard whispers of through the grapevine.

Using the Commando training as an excellent "litmus test" to weed out non-performers and unfit soldiers were other groups; SOE, SIS, others (if others...what others?) waiting in the wings to draw on this new talent?

SOE experts in the UK and Norway I've interviewed believe they may have been seconded to SOE. Fine. A plausible idea. Any ideas how this might have worked in reality?

Whether seconded on a long-term basis or "as needed" would these guys just disappear for an operation and then return to the parent Commando or would they become part and parcel of an SOE organization (like SSRF/No. 62 CDO for instance)?

My Dad's best mate and likely closest friend before or since, was killed between Feb and May 1941, but I can find no hide nor hair of him either. His name was John Henderson. He was pre-war British Army from either a Devon or Dorset-based regiment I believe....no success as yet with them. This is either bad record-keeping or he belonged to a unit or was in a place that couldn't be revealed (or operating from one). I'd be happy to hear other thoughts.

How would a KIA have been handled? I would've thought he'd have been listed under a parent units rolls at that point, but am not certain. Surely his family had to be notified? If so, he would be on CWGC Roll of Honour right? Can't find him.

I'd really like to meet any of you over a pint to discuss this, but I'm in Africa for the foreseeable future so until then I need as many experts to offer their opinions as are interested. I'm looking for facts, but also out-of-the-box thinking. I need someone else's perspective and I certainly appreciate your efforts and time.

All the very best,

Jeff