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Messages posted by: NIC
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Andy,
Just thinking aloud here:


As I said previously, it looks as if the officer in the photo is either a Lt or a Lt Col.
Operation Collar was lead by Major Ronnie Tod, Lt Col Dudley Clarke went along as an observer, and, if he is the injured party, then (as he was the only Lt Col on the raid), the unknown officer must be a lieutenant.

Nick
A third account of the raid comes from " March Past" by Lord Lovat. Chapter 11, Time to move on.

... The Dover party went ashore nearer Boulogne where they engaged German cyclist patrol - an easy target which should have beenambushed as it passed by. In the event, an officer mis-handled his sub-machine gun at the critical moment: as he belatedly cocked the unfamiliar weapon, the magazine dropped off before he pressed the trigger. Clarke, however, bled for his country. He got a bullet (only a glancing blow) along his neck and earlobe which must have stung a bit. So they returned to England without a prisoner...

The third party claimed a dead German in a similar skirmish, but he was not picked up. Such claims on such a dark night must be sustantiated. Tendancies to exaggerate go with inexperience, nerves and a lively imagination. The claim, on this occasion was 'blown' by the assertion that there had been no room in the crash boat and the corpse had been towed astern. The rope conveniently before reaching England.
Clarke had his severed ear sewn back on again after reaching Dover...


I'm afraid that these three slightly differing accounts do muddy the waters a little as far as ascertaining which raid Hugh Maines was on, but it does show how subtle differences in reports can bring about completely different stories.

Hopefully, however, we do have an explanation about No 11 Independent Company for Andy.

Nick
A very slightly different account of this raid is told in "The Green Beret" by Hilary st George Saunders where, in Chapter 2, The Force is Conceived, he recounts that the boat with the injured Dudley Clarke on board made it back to Dover where the injured officer went off to hospital to have his ear, which was partially severed, sewn on again. "The man who had conceived The Commandos was the first of them to be wounded in action".
In the meantime, the men on board the boat that landed at Plage de Merlimont approached a large building surrounded by barbed wire. It was filled with the enemy and may have been the headquarters of a local garrison, or possibly an officers' mess. Two sentries were on guard outside and they were set upon and killed. One died silently, but the other screamed and his death cry gave the alarm. The wire was too thick for the attackers to charge the building and they therefore contented themselves with lobbing grenades through the windows, and withdrew with one of the corpses. So crowded was the boat, however, that they were forced to tow it behind and it sank before England was reached.
here is an extract from the book " The Commandos 1940 - 46" by charles Messenger.
Chapter 1, In the Beginning,

The First Raids... In the meantime Churchill was impatient for action, but, as yet the resources to begin carrying out raiding operations were very slender. The Commandos were still being formed, and all that was available were the Independant Companies. While Nos 1-5 and 10 Independant Companies were based in Scotland, it was decided to send Nos 6 - 9 to Cornwall, to help safeguard against invasion both there and on the Scilly Isles. Before they left Scotland, however, volunteers were called for to form a fresh Independant Company. No 11, for special operations. It was to consist of 25 officers and 350 other ranks and was to be commanded by Major Ronnie Todd. It was to be this unit which was to carry out the first of the commando operations.
No 11 was officially formed 14 June 1940, and moved to Southampton...
Operation Collar took place on the night of 24/25 June. Two parties set out from Ramsgate, each with two boats to operate in the Hardelot area, a third, with one boat, from Dover would also land at a different spot in the same area, while two parties from Newhaven would land at Stella Plage and north of Berck...
Of the Ramsgate groups, the first boat landed just southof Hardelot and met an enemy patrol which fired at them and made off. Fire was not returned. The other boat was not afterwards able to pinpoint where it had landed, but saw nothing, apart from coming under machine-gun fire during re-embarkation. The Dover party arrived too late to land, although they did come under some machine-gun fire. The party landing at Berck found nothing, and only the stella Plage group, which actually landed at Merlimont Plage, had a proper brush with the enemy.
"An enemy patrol of 2 men was encountered and both killed by sub-machine gun fire at a range of 15 yards. Nothing was removed from the bodies. ..."
The only casualty of the raid came in this last action when Dudley Clarke, who had gone as an observer, was hit behind the ear, but not seriously


Nick
Seems like some great detective work going on here - great stuff.

I've been looking at the officer's rank and I'm sure I can only see two insignia...
That would make him either a Lieutenant (2 pips) or, a Lieutenant Colonel (1 pip, 1 crown).

I get the impression, from the far epaulette, that the insignia are raised to a peak - the crowns, in profile, are quite flat, whereas the pips could be described as pyramid shaped and were raised in their centre.
So my theory is that the officer is a lieutenant!

Nick

I'm pretty sure it's Supernumerary.

I don't think the Holding Commando existed at the time so I assume that your dad was sent to the the Independent Companies where he finished his commando training and waited for a 'vacancy' when he would be TOS (Taken on Strength).

Only a theory - I may be wrong.

Nick

Neil,

Welcome to the CVA forum.

A likely source of information about your Great Uncle is JOHN W - his father was also in No 2 and, as far as I know, was also a boxer.

Good luck.
nick
Hi stéphane,

I have been contacted by someone with a special interest in 5 Troop, No3 Cdo.

Did you ever find any photos?

Regards,
Nick
Just received the following email from CWGC:

CWGC wrote:Dear Mr C

Thank you for your e-mail of 12th November 2008.

We have checked our records and have found a reference to No.5.Commando for Sjt F H M Haldane. We have amended our database accordingly, please see below for the information we now hold:

Serjeant HALDANE, FREDERICK HENRY MILLER
Regiment: Royal Armoured Corps
Secondary Unit Text: and No.5
Secondary Regiment: Commando
Service No: 4537642
Age: 25
Date of Death: 15 March 1944
Commemoration: TAUKKYAN WAR CEMETERY
Myanmar
10. F. 5.
Additional Information: Son of Fred E. B. Haldane and Mabel Haldane; husband of Elizabeth Haldane, of Leicester.

Yours sincerely



Mrs J Williams

Enquiries Section


http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2085967

Some progress but I still have work to do on the others...

OPERATION ARCHERY VETERANS - a photograph of the 7 veterans who attended a commemorative trip to Vaagso and Maaloy in 2005.

Left to right - Charles Stacey, Arthur Ashby, Tom Sherman, Paddy (laurence) Murphy, Paddy (Patrick) Habron, Dusty (Osmond) Miller, Henry Brown (Commando Association)

)



Caroline,

Like most of the Veterans I've met, your dad sounds like a real character - it must have been one of the qualities required to become a commando.

I did like the story about him and the mittens!

Yes, of course you can join the CVA; the CVA encourages families and friends to apply for Associate Membership.
The necessary forms are on the 'Join the CVA' page, just print off the appropriate form and send to the National Secretary.

Nick
Caroline wrote:Many thanks Nic and I will pass on the good wishes today to my dad.
I will ask him re the joining of CVA and maybe do on his behalf, computers and things are not really his speciality!! although he does do an occasional email.
He has been writing a 'Dads Story' for myself and brothers, to pass onto us and is detailing all his earlier years and memories.
I have told him in the past about the various commando sites and the almost hero status that is acclaimed to them and my dad just says they were not heroes - they were just doing their jobs. I have to say I do think they were all heroes

Caroline

Hi Caroline,
I fully understand that someone of your dad's age may not be too savvy with computers - unfortunately, not many of the veterans are - but The CVA is more than just the website.
We have a quarterly newsletter, Dispatches, which is sent out to all members and this is one way that the veterans keep in touch with each other.
The great thing about The CVA is that all of the CVA Committee are Full Members of the Association (eg the President & Chairman are Commando Veterans and the Secretary is a serving Commando) and all of the veterans have the same attitude as your father - !we were only doing our job!"
[I'd like to think that we, the younger generations, know better ) ]

Take care,
Nick
Di,

I've just checked my father's Service Records and it states that he was:

RELEASED TO CLASS Z(T),
Royal Army Reserve
16 9 47
(Class 'A' Release)
Taken on Strength
CLASS Z (T) Reserve
17 9 47


hope this helps,
Nick

Di,

I think this must refer to Class Z Reserves - I can't remember the criteria for being Class Z, but will endeavour to find out

Nick
Hi Caroline,
Welcome to The Commando Veterans Association Forum.
I'm sure all our members will join me in wishing Charles a happy birthday for tomorrow.

Please explore the CVA Site well - there is also an excellent photo gallery which is worth a browse.

The CVA was formed shortly after the CA Stood Down and has a thriving membership of Veteran Commandos, serving Commandos and families of Commandos.
There are a few annual gatherings,
One in Fort William for The Commando Remembrance Services;
Another in July at The National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas, Staffs where we have recently placed a CVA Memorial.
There is always a good turn out from the Veterans as it is an ideal opportunity to meet up with old friends and colleagues.

I have taken this opportunity to send you the "How to join the CVA" link.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/site/join

Regards,
Nick
 
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