Messages posted by: Ian Grant

Thanks Pete

Oops. Major correction to my last post! For "Left" read " Right" for the positions on the photo. Sorry about that.

Thank you, Pete.
There is some further information which I've had for ages and meant to add to the 6 Troop photo as confirmation.
The main evidence is an extract from the war diary ( attached) which shows the date of the photographs ( 8th November 1943)
This also mentions that Lt J C Erskine was posted to 6 Troop a few days before. John Erskine has been identified in the photo, in the front row seated 7th from the left.
Next to him, front row 8th from the left, is the very recognisable figure of Lt John Alderson, sadly KIA in April 1945 in Germany. He was in 6 Troop before and after the date of this photo.
This, together with the other evidence, probably confirms this as 6 Troop.

The actual location of the series of Troop photos of 3 Commando, taken in November 1943 and shown in the Gallery on this website, can be identified as the piazza in front of the Norman Castle on the seafront of Aci Castello, near Catania, Sicily.

The following link to Google Maps shows an image of this square.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5540659,15.1486803,3a,75y,304.82h,93.79t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOY2iMGyAkP93nz_wVSE-sNga2X24Inm8T0mjZd!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipOY2iMGyAkP93nz_wVSE-sNga2X24Inm8T0mjZd%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya217.1069-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352

The buildings in the background of the original photos are largely unchanged and the conifer tree is still there, but much larger!

Hi,

Correction , my father is 4th from the left in the photo!
[ missed the man on the extreme left ]

Ian

Hi,

The 3 Commando photo belonged to my father. He had written " Italy November 1943" on the back. According to the 3 Commando war diary [see attached extract ] it was taken on 8th November 1943 in Cannizarro , near Catania, Sicily. After action in Sicily and the Italian mainland, 3 commando spent November and December in Sicily before returning to the UK around Christmas 1943.

Sue, my father is standing in the back row, 3rd from the left, just behind your father. So it's likely they knew each other.

Best regards

Ian Grant

A further comment on troop identification related to the group photos from Italy Nov 1943.
The War Diary records that in July 1943 total strength was down to just over 250 and the Troops were reorganised into HQ and four other Troops. 2 Troop was kept as heavy weapons Troop while 1 and 3 Troops were absorbed into 4, 5 and 6. I don't know if this arrangement persisted up until the time of the photographs but it does illustrate the movement of personnel between Troops.

Hi,

Thanks for drawing my attention to your photo. Unfortunately my father isn't one of the group. Also, he was a private and I notice that the two men in front are sergeants. Since the photo was taken by Corporal Denham perhaps all the men are NCOs?
Grateful to you for posting it.

Ian Grant

Hi,

After a little research in the 3 commando war diary, I've managed to trace the date and location of the troop photo which I uploaded here a few weeks ago.

The diary entry for November 8th 1943 is:
" 9.30 Commando photographs taken"
The place was Cannizzaro, a small town or suburb near Catania, Sicily.

Ian Grant

After a bit more research, I don't think it is Durnford-Slater in the photo after all. The one image I found ( below) from July 1944 shows him to look quite a bit older.
Also, in August 1943 Peter Young became CO of 3 commando and Durnford-Slater was promoted in charge of a brigade. This would account for Young being in all the photos and Durnford-Slater would not have been there since the rest of the brigade was still engaged in fighting in Italy.
After losses in Sicily, 3 commando was reorganised into a headquarters and 4 troops. This might have been increased by reinforcement later though, since for example by own father rejoined in September from 2SAS.
Anyway, that's about all I can add at this point.
As for the soldier in question, I agree he does look similar to the photos of Siobhan's grandfather, so it still seems very much a possibility.

Hi Siobhan,

After a quick search on Google I'm pretty convinced that the officer 8th from the left and who also appears in the other photo, is Peter Young.
However, I haven't managed to find any good photos of Durnford-Slater. What I have seen does show a resemblance to the chap 7th from the left though. Obviously that would mean that it's not your grandfather unfortunately. Since Durnford-Slater was such a prominent character I'm sure there must be other members who could confirm whether it is him here.

Ian

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the response. I'm really pleased that it did turn out to be your father in the photo. I know how poignant it is to see an image of your dad as a young man and probably more so if it's one you've never seen before.

I'd have liked to be able to provide more information on the background to the photo but sadly I don't know any more than I already mentioned. It is interesting to study the two photos however and that might give some clues. For example the group sizes are different. There are fewer men in the photo I posted and one soldier on the extreme left has a facial dressing consistent with them having recently been in action.
Perhaps the best chance of identifying the group would be if any of the officers could be recognised. As a point of interest I noticed that one officer appears in both groups. Presumably he is the most senior officer. Is it Durnford-Slater, the CO?

Obviously I'd be extremely interested in any further information which you might turn up , including any conversation with Scotty. On the off-chance that he might recall my own father I'll pass on some additional details.
His regiment was the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. He had been a police constable prior to army service, came originally from the island of Islay and was a native Gaelic speaker.

Meanwhile, we'll just have to wait and see if the photo triggers any other memories.

Ian

Hi,

My late father served with No 3 commando and the SAS in the period 1943/44. His name was Archibald Grant , Private in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. From the very few things that he mentioned concerning where he had been in this period and from published histories it is certain that he was in 2SAS. He was stationed near Algiers, did parachute training in Morocco, took part in a submarine landed raid prior to the Sicily invasion and still had a silk map of Tunisia. That was basically all I knew prior to researching his army records.
The records themselves show that he was attached to 3 commando in Jan 1943, posted to 62 commando in early March 1943 and posted back to 3 commando in late Sept 1943, where he remained until end July 1944.
Interestingly there is no mention in the service record of the SAS. However, 62 commando were apparently disbanded in April 1943 and formed the nucleus of 2SAS.
One of the few momentos of his wartime service are his SAS parachute wings shown in the photo below

Hi,

I was interested in the correspondence posted here concerning 3 Commando and in particular the group photo of 3 troop. I have an almost identical photo (hopefully shown below), but of a different grouping, also from 3 Commando.This belonged to my late father who served in the unit and appears in the photo; Private A.C. Grant , "Archie Grant", back row, 4th from the left.
I don't know which troop he was in and therefore I can't precisely identify the group. Typically, my father rarely spoke about his service and so it has been necessary to piece together any information. The photo has a handwritten note "Italy November 1943".
He undertook commando training in October 1942, was posted to 3 Commando, transferred to 62 Commando in early 1943, then 2SAS in N.Africa and Sicily and posted again to 3 Commando at the end of September 1943. This was just before the battle of Termoli. After the battle 3 Commando was sent to Molfetta near Bari for rest and recreation. My guess is that this is where the photos were taken.
He remained with 3 Commando until July 1944.

As well as contributing something which might be of general interest, the reason for posting in this topic is the possibility that Peter John Gibson might appear in the group. The soldier in the middle row, 5th from the right, seems to show some resemblance.

Hope this is helpful.

Ian Grant