Rank: W/Bdr?

I am currently completing the forms to send off for my Dad's army records and am confused about his rank. On the Cdo Service Certificate his rank shows as Bombadier Edwards but I've also found a small 'Record of Service' card which gives his service number and shows his rank as 'W/Bdr'. What would the 'W' stand for please?

Also the card shows Regt/Corps as HAA (?) from 8/5/41 to 27/11/46. The 'Request for Service Details' form asks for his Regt/Corps on Discharge. Would this be HAA and not No 2 Cdo? (I seem to remember something about soldiers returning to their original units before being demobbed).

Any help greatly appreciated please.

Di

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/06/2009 22:16:46

Hi there Di

Nice and simple answer to the "W" prefix before his rank especially on seeing your surname. The Royal Artillery sometimes used "W" to denote a Welshman. Now don't ask me why.....

HAA is another Royal Artillery one - Heavy Anti Aircraft.

So put down Bombardier, Royal Artillery, Heavy Anti Aircraft Regt., and No.2 Commando, and that should do the trick. Show the lot and they can work it out...thats what i did.

Regards

Pete

Hi Di,

I'm afraid I have to disagree with Pete on one minor point - the 'W'...

The 'W' was indeed sometimes used as a prefix to the service number in RA, RE and the ASC to denote 'Welsh' but if used as a prefix to the rank, then it indicated that the rank was War Substantive (more commonly W/S).

But, as Pete points out, the more info you can submit the better - most important though = service number, full name, date of birth and parent regiment (soldiers were only 'on loan' to the Commandos from their regiment/Corps).

Nick

I stand here humbly corrected. Nick is right as usual. I have just re read the abbreviation sheet, with my glasses on this time, that both Nick and I have.

:(

Pete wrote:I stand here humbly corrected. Nick is right as usual. I have just re read the abbreviation sheet, with my glasses on this time, that both Nick and I have.

:(

What magnanimity! thank you Sir you are a gentleman. :D
However, I should point out that on Pete's sheet, the War Substantive explanation is at the top of the next page and, therefore, easily missed, whereas on my list it is listed just under the 'Welsh' explanation.
Also, I do have other lists (eg Imperial War Museum that also mentions W = Wounded...
The important point on Di's case is that the W prefixes the RANK and not the number etc.

Regards,
Nick

Thank you both, you're gems!

Sorry for appearing thick but what does War Substantive actually mean please? He was wounded so could it also mean that (as Nic said)? Also should I include the 'W' on the records form?

Sorry for so many questions but want to get it right before sending off the forms.

Regards
Di

Di,

Your questions are perfectly valid -
HM Forces acronyms and abbreviations are often quite confusing, even to those who are used to using them them - perhaps they are thus designed to confuse the enemy!

Equally the rank/promotion system can be just as confusing...
During peacetime a soldier, airman or sailor would be promoted based on his/her seniority, ability and performance and he would be paid according to his rank. This is his actual or Substantive rank.
However, during war things were quite different. Obviously senior ranks were wounded or killed and there was a need for someone to fill those posts. Thus it became necessary for soldiers (etc) to perform duty in a rank higher than their Substantive rank - this was a Temporary rank.
But then there was an Acting rank as well! This could be Acting/Unpaid or Acting/Paid (All acting promotions in the Army in wartime were made initially on an unpaid basis, but after the acting rank had been held continuously for 21 days the pay of the rank was granted retrospectively provided a vacancy in that rank exists on the establishment of the unit!)

Here is an extract from a summary of the career of a soldier in the WWI who joined as a Private; and at one point, even though his substantive rank was Lieutenant, he found himself as the Commanding Officer of his unit with the acting rank of Lt Col...

Mid October reverted back to 2 i/c. Awarded DSO: according to the order announcing this, his substantive rank was Lieutenant, his temporary rank was Major and his acting rank was Lt-Colonel.

Nick