Unidentified photos from the collection of Lance Corporal Emmerson

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/04/2012 16:39:50

Thanks Jack and Brian

A few more of the medal ceremony added with names this time. I will post them in their respective galleries in due course but for now they are all visible in the No.1 SS Bde album :

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/

One of note is that of Captain Gordon Pollard MC and bar, and MM of No.3 Commando :

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/3/jde1524+copy.jpg.html

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 16/04/2012 00:32:44

I have now posted the HQ 1 SS Brigade War Diaries for June - Sept 44 on the forum

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3346.page

These photos tie in with events mentioned in the Diaries -

14th July 1944 ~ Detachments from Bde HQ and all units took part in the 'JULY 14'
celebrations in the village of LE PLEIN which included the consecration of a Memorial set up on the village green in memory of those members of the First Special Service Brigade who lost their lives fighting in Normandy.
The Service was followed by a March Past of the detachments and a party of Les Anciens Combattants of the village at which Brig J Durnford Slater, DSO, Deputy Comd SS Group took the salute.

16th July 1944 ~ Brig D. Mills-Roberts DSO MC attended a memorial service held by 6 Cdo.
General Sir Bernard Montgomery, C in C 21 Army Group, held an investiture at HQ 6 Airborne Div which was attended by the Bde Comd. Several members of the Bde were decorated. General Montgomery visited BREVILLE during his tour of the area.
Deputy Comd SS Gp held a conference which was attended by the Bde Comd and all Staff Officers.

I will be posting the War Diaries of the rest of 1 SS Brigade (3Cdo, 4Cdo, 6 Cdo, 45 RM Cdo & Brigade Signals) in the near future - when my fingers have recovered from typing!

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/04/2012 16:40:46

It's great to have photgraphic links to specific entries in the War Diary. I have added a few more photos taken by lance Corporal 'Ken Emmerson including this one of the unveiling of the memorial ceremony. Note the annotation written by him below about the flight of German fighter planes passing overhead:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/jde1534+copy.jpg.html

For clarity I have created separate sub albums now for each of four different SS (Cdo) Brigade HQ, and one for all the Brigade Signals Troops. As a result I have had to edit some of the links previiously placed on messages here. Hopefully they are all correct now. I have moved those photos of individuals identified to a specific Commando Unit to their respective albums within the gallery. I still have a few more photos to post from John Emmerson's collection:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/04/2012 17:50:28

It has been annoying me that we have been unable to identify the General addressing the Commandos in pictures #17a, 18, 19 in Ken Emmerson's photos.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/Emmerson+photos/scan0073.jpg.html

Would anyone agree that there is a strong resemblance to Maj Gen Richard Gale, GOC 6th Airbourne?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Gale.jpg/300px-Gale.jpg

http://home.sandiego.edu/~cfrederick-08/pic38s.jpg

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/normandy/Biog/Richard_Gale_10.jpg

Looking at HQ 1 SS Brigades War Diaries, General Gale did visit the Brigde HQ on 7 June, 28 June and 12 July 44.

I'm also struck by the similarity of the General in this photo to that of 'Windy' Gale but this, I'm sure was taken later on in the Brigades advance across Europe as it is the same building that we have Gen Dempsey visiting.

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/WW2/The+Commanders/scan0137.jpg.html

nick

General Gale on the 16th July 1944 :

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/HQ+and+Sigs/1+SS+Bde/jde1520+copy.jpg.html

Nick,

I don't think "your general" is "Windy" Gale, who is taller and a bit slimmer than your general. Besides that, I have never seen photos of Gale wearing a cap. He is/was always wearing a beret as far as I know.

Jack Bakker wrote:Nick,

I don't think "your general" is "Windy" Gale, who is taller and a bit slimmer than your general. Besides that, I have never seen photos of Gale wearing a cap. He is/was always wearing a beret as far as I know.

Hi Jack, yes it's true that Windy Gale is mostly photographed in his 'Cherry' Beret but he may have forgone the Beret on a visit to Commandos

Anyway, here are two more photos of Gen Gale wearing a cap in one and looking a little paunchy in the other (you may even compare the way he is standing on this photo with how the Gen on #17a stands...

nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 19/04/2012 02:16:46

Hi Nick,

I agree that there is a similarity, but I still think the general concerned is not general Gale. First of all that general is a shorter guy, which is shown perhaps even better on the other photos of him. Photos of Gale (also the one you posted last) show that he clearly is a tall man; that general is not in my opinion.

I have printed out the last photo you posted of general Gale and I have held it next to the head of the other general after I enlarged his photo on the computer screen. I might be mistaken of course, but to me the left ear of general Gale is very different to the left ear of the other general. That ear stands a bit off the head itself, whereas the ear of general Gale does not. And the top part of the ear of general Gale is also different to that of the other general. Perhaps Pete with his background could shine a light on this?

Another thing to perhaps think about: why would general Gale not wear his red beret when visiting the Commandos? And I can't see the Pegasus emblem on the sleeve of the other general. Gale does have that on his battle dress on the photo you posted and he surely would have that on his service dress as well I suppose? Or was Pegasus only worn on the battle dress?

Is there perhaps a database with photos of the British generals in WW2? He might be in there.

Keep on searching!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 19/04/2012 02:17:19

Jack Bakker wrote:Hi Nick,

First of all that general is a shorter guy, which is shown perhaps even better on the other photos of him. Photos of Gale (also the one you posted last) show that he clearly is a tall man; that general is not in my opinion.

hi Jack,
I agree that General Gale was reasonably tall but I do not agree that the 'Unknown' General is short.

You see it's a matter of camera angles & perspective...

Look at photo #19; here, it would seem, that Brig Mills-Roberts (centre, on the road) is taller than Unknown General. But we know - from picture #18 - that Mills-Roberts is some distance behind him and we know that the further away an object is, the smaller it appears; so Mills-Roberts should, therefore, appear shorter than the General in the foreground.
This is an optical illusion caused by the height of the camera when the photo was taken - they say the camera never lies but , with over 30 years experience as a photographer, I can assure you that it does and it can also play tricks with your mind.

There is also another optical illusion here - we cannot see the Unknown Generals feet and so the brain assesses where it 'thinks' the feet should be.
But, if you look at his torso, the length of his arms and where his knees appear to be, I think it's obvious that his legs are much longer than we 'are led to believe'.
Look at photo #18 - here we see Unknown General at a different view and, because he has trampled the grass, we can see more of his legs.
If you measure the visible part of his legs it basically equals the distance between his collar and the bottom of his jacket. Make that same measurement on picture #19 and his legs appear much shorter than his torso.
If you then 'stretch' his legs to match the length of his torso you'll see that he is much taller than you first imagined...

Jack Bakker wrote:Another thing to perhaps think about: why would general Gale not wear his red beret when visiting the Commandos? And I can't see the Pegasus emblem on the sleeve of the other general. Gale does have that on his battle dress on the photo you posted and he surely would have that on his service dress as well I suppose? Or was Pegasus only worn on the battle dress?

Is there perhaps a database with photos of the British generals in WW2? He might be in there.

In answer to your question regarding the Beret, I can only surmise that he might not wear his Beret out of respect for The Commandos. It would seem that he favoured a beret but why should he wear a Red Beret when visting the Commandos? Perhaps he took the diplomatic option and wore his cap instead.
I don't know whether he'd have worn the Pegasus emblem on his Service Uniform.

Yes, there is a Database of Generals and I have plodded through all the bloomin' British Generals and Richard Gale is the closest I can find...

Obviously we can't be sure either way, but there still remains the possibility that Major General Richard 'Windy' Gale and Unknown General are one and the same...

And a big thank you for entering into this discussion, after all it's important that we get to hear everyone's opinions.

I seem to recall Brig J. Durnford-Slater making references to high ranking officers visitting the 1st SS Brigade throughout the period in his book 'Commando'. May be worth looking..... I will need to find the book first though! )

John Emmerson has kindly sent us a new discovery in the family archives, this being a report his father, Lance Corporal 'Ken' Emmerson, wrote about his experience of D Day whilst with No.1 Special Service Brigade HQ. I have placed it as a PDF file in our "Personal Letters, diaries, and memoirs" albums here. Click on his photo for the file:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/documents/Letters/

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 06/12/2013 23:57:28

With regards to this photo discussed on page 4 by Nick, I wonder could the officer in the middle be Major Robert Edward William Holmes RE, No.9 Independent Company, and Staff Officer RE, No. 1 SS Brigade HQ. For comparison I have provided the links below to each photo :

Brig. John Durnford Slater, ?, and Brig. Derek Mills Roberts

and

Major Robert Edward William Holmes RE

Any views ??