41 Commando - Ancestry Photo led me to here.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 29/02/2020 22:37:45

Good evening,

I am currently researching my family tree focusing on the WW2 generation. It has been a fascinating journey so far with many forebears who fought, and some, sadly, fallen or lost in many of the war's many arenas. I have registered here because I have a first cousin, once-removed. His name was Albert J Parr (affectionately known as Bertie) Until now, the only information I had on him was a photograph of him in military uniform, his date of birth in Southampton and a Roll of Honour linked to his Grammar School. Realising that he was very likely to be a casualty if war, my internet search led me to a page from this site and it appears that I have a possible match. I have found a Lieutenant Albert John Parr of 41 RM Commando who died in March in the Lower part of the Maas River region. I do not have any service record for him and I have no idea who his immediate Next of Kin would be, if any now.
Before attempting to go further with his research, I was wondering if it would be possible to confirm his service and determine his rank from the uniform in the photograph ? and If so, where should I upload a copy of the photo.

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

Martin

Hi Martin
Here is a link to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) and their record for Lt Albert John Parr, RM

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2765963/parr,-albert-john/

The photo you attached is certainly that of a Royal Marine Officer - if you look at his right shoulder you can just make out the Lieutenant's pips.
Also his cap badge is clearly in two parts - a globe in a laurel wreath and a lion on a crown - which generally indicates an officer...
If you look closely at the cap badge you can make out that there is a piece of material between the cap badge and the beret - this was a scarlet tombstone shaped patch. This also means that the photo was taken after 8 July 1943 (when the blue beret was introduced to replace the field service caps).
However, the scarlet patch was not worn on the green beret when that was introduced for Royal Marine Commandos in 14 August 43.

Nick

Martin,

Welcome.

I see that the CWGC,show Albert John Parr was a member of 41 RM Cdo,and laid to rest at UDEN War Cemetery.

A Register of Royal Marines War Deaths 1939-1945, shows PARR,Albert John, LIEUT ,28 Battalion,died 22.3.45, Holland.

Several reference show that the 28 Bn RM,were in Holland at the time.

Graham

Nick and Graham

Thanks for taking a look at the photo and for all your information. I will follow up on the 28 Battalion clue and see what I can find out along with 41 Commando. Am I right in thinking there was a training camp on the Isle of Wight?, this would make sense as he was from Southampton.

Thanks very much for the link, I have been able to find a photo of his grave now in the gallery.

It was fascinating to learn so much about his uniform and to date the photograph to 1943 was an added bonus.
thank you both for your time it is very much appreciated.

Martin

As far as I know there was no 'training' camp on the Isle of Wight - however some Commando and Royal Marine Cdo units were based there for a short periods.

Just because he was from Southampton does not necessarily mean he would have trained close to home - for instance the RM Depot Deal (aka RM Depot Walmer) was in Kent.
It then depended what he was in the RMs - not all RMs were commandos (the first RM Commando was formed in February 1942, whereas the (Army) Commandos were formed in 1940!).

There were Training Establishments all over the UK and a cluster, the RMTG(W) [Royal Marine Training Group 9Wales] were in North Wales...

I emphasis that the photo was post July 1943.
If he was in 28 Battalion, he wasn't a RM Cdo and would have worn the blue beret with scarlet patch...
If he was in 41 RM Cdo he was a commando and therefore, after August '43, would have worn the green beret.

Both 28 RM Bn and 41 RM Cdo were in the right area for him to be buried at Uden War Cemetery.

28 RM Battalion: Formed August 1944. Trained as nucleus for a Beach Group. Changed to Army battalion role. Served on the Maas. Returned UK 6/1945 and took part in Internal security duties. Disbanded 21/1/1946...

41 RM Cdo took part in the battle of the Scheldt in November 1944. It then served on the Maas River for the remainder of the war and then occupation duties in Germany. On 20 January 1946 the commando was disbanded...

Nick

Martin,
I think it might be worth your while to apply to the MoD for his service records - although you do not have his service number, you say you have his date of birth and, to apply, you need either one or the other!
He died in service so you don't need a Death Certificate...

I will enclose links to the relevant forms - As you are related I will include the Next of Kin form ( as opposed to the General Enquirer) you will see that there is a tick box to indicate your relationship to the deceased. If you tick 'Other' and state that you're 1st cousin (once removed), it is likely that the Records Office will not question it or, if they do, they will just send you the information a General Enquirer would receive - the fee of £30 remains the same anyway!

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711147/20180524-request_service_details_NOK_part1_v6.2.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/711157/request_for_service_details_rnrm_application_part2__1_.pdf

Nick

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 01/03/2020 19:07:51

Hello Martin

Just to add to what else has been said, the Navy Lists are a good source of information and they are online. here are a few references to your cousin with links to the relevant page. The CWGC have him as 41RM Commando but we can see he had not been with 41RM Commando long in that case before his death.

A.J.Parr

April 1944 vol 1.....RM Infantry Training Centre 2nd Lt awaiting disposal
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/93293890

October 1944 vol 2 .... 28th RM Bn
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/93365130

January 1945 vol 1....Lt (seniority since 10 Aug 1944) RMTrng Grp Devon
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/93391022

January 1945 vol 2 .... 28th RM Bn.
https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/93402522

Additionally the CWGC report shows that he died on the same day as Sgt. H.H. Stalker and Mne. W. Carter, both of 41RM Commando and they were each buried initially at St. Michielsgestel Holland. Here is a link to the CWGC Graves Concentration Report Form:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2765963/parr,-albert-john/#&gid=null&pid=3

Gentlemen

Just logged back on, what can I say, such a wealth of information!

I cannot begin to tell you all what a difference this makes. It is certainly quite a lot to take in and I am looking forward to putting all the pieces together.

Thanks to your combined efforts, I am beginning to get a much clearer idea of what happened in this part of his life and some invaluable knowledge on where to source this type of information for the future.

Nick, from a quick read of your posts, it does seem he trained as a RM with the 28th, which fits in with your original Beret explanation. Thanks for the service record application forms. I fully intend to follow it up and send for the information. I was struggling to find any Service number for Albert, perhaps his records will hold more information. As soon as I receive them, I will culminate all the research and tell his story. It would be fitting, I think, to post and share his tale on this website along with other associated sites online.

Looking at the dates, he could not have been in the Netherlands very long before being killed, less than a couple of months it would seem and just as many months away from the end of all hostilities.

Pete, thank you for your contribution, the CWGC information is fascinating. Like the Navy lists, I will certainly make use of those sites in the future. I had no inkling that he been moved from another Cemetery or that he was killed on the same day as the other 41 RM Commando's.

Once again, I am indebted to you for kindly taking the time to share your knowledge and findings and I am off to read through them all again!

Martin

Wonderful cooperation - well done, all concerned.
Fascinating.