James Patrick KEANE

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 31/10/2010 01:02:27

I am trying to put together some information on my grandfather, James Patrick KEANE.

I have a few bits already, and will be sending off the forms for his army records as soon as I understand how to fill them in !

In the meantime....

Jim was drafted into the army in 1940, he went into the South Lancashire Regiment, I believe he was there for 2 years until he volunteered for a Commando unit.

He trained in Scotland, 1942/43. He completed a parachute course at Ringway. Following training he was stationed somewhere *like* the Hebrides, and was involved in some raids from there.

In 1943 he was sent to Burma, apparently the night they embarked the port was bombed and the troops were disembarked to assist with the aftermath of the bombing.

From Burma he went out to India, coming back in 1946.

Upon return, they caught a train from the port to *Wrexham* , arriving late at night. Upon arrival they were demobbed, given 10 shillings and a travel warrant home to Manchester.

I have a photo of him taken in Burma, in a slouch hat - I will scan it and attach it as soon as I work out how to use a scanner......

I dont know which Commando he could have been in - my dad thought it was 3 Commando but I think he is confusing this with 3 Commando Brigade in Burma, I guess this points to either 1 or 5 Commando?

I dont know if there are unit rosters available, but if there are I would appreciate any help.

Regards

Pete Keane

Hi Pete,
Welcome aboard the CVA Forum...

I think you're right about which Commando you're grandfather served with - it was, in all probability either No1 or No5.

3 Special Service Brigade [as it was then], under the command of Brigadier W I Nonweiler, comprised of: No 1 Cdo, No 5 Cdo, No 42 RM Cdo & No 44 RM Cdo.

On 13 Nov 1943, No5 & 44RM embarked on the Reina Del Pacifico at Liverpool.

On 15 Nov 43 sailed to Gourock on the Clyde where they met with the main contingent of the convey which included Ranchi carrying No1, 42 RM & 3 SS Brigade HQ.

On 26 Nov 43 The convey, whilst passing Algiers, was attacked by German planes at 16.45hrs until 17.45 hrs. Ranchi was damaged and put into Alexandria for repairs.

On 19 Dec 43 Reina Del Pacifico docked at Bombay at 12.40hrs.

On 20 Dec 43, No5 & 44RM disembarked at 07.35, departed from Bombay railway station at 09.00hrs, arrived at Kedgaon (near Poona) at 17.40hrs.

On 15 Jan 44 The Dutch Troop, No10 (IA) Commando arrived.

On 21st Jan 44 No1 & 42 RM arrived after their enforced stay in Egypt.

I believe that the Brigade was (officialy) renamed as 3 Commando Brigade in December 1944

Good luck in your research,
Nick

Pete Keane wrote:

I don't know if there are unit rosters available, but if there are I would appreciate any help.

Regards

Pete Keane

Geoff Murray (The CVA National Secretary) is currently working on 'They also Served' nominal rolls for each Commando Unit - there is already a Roll of Honour for each Commando (see Commando History on the menu on the left of this page).
The compilation of these nominal rolls involve painstakingly checking and cross-checking a huge amount of documentation.

in the meantime, should you need any help with the Application Forms for your grandfather's Service Records don't hesitate to ask - either on the open forum, by PM or by email...

Nick

Thanks for the detail.

I spoke to my dad, Jim didn't mention his transport being damaged, so I dont think he was on the Ranchi.

My dad thought it was earlier in 1943, and that the boat sailed via South Africa rather than the Med., but until I can get the info. from his records a lot of this is guesswork based on half-remembered stories!

I tried to pin down the bombing on the Clyde - I doubt it was Helensburgh, more likely Greenock/Gourock, they seemed to have been bombed throughtout though, so its impossible ti identify a single event.

I am awaiting the scanned photo still.

Thanks for the help so far.

I have managed to get hold of a newspaper clipping showing Jim

Not great quality - I only know its him because my great-uncle cut it out of the paper when it was published.

I am trying to date the clipping (how hard does this have be!), and on the back is the following:

Not being overly familiar with timelines of WW2, it looks to me like the capture of vichy French territory in North Africa ? Can any give me any clues as to what the event was? I can then date the photo roughly.

Thanks

Pete

Possible clues as to date : The subject matter on the reverse of the newspaper photo may well relate to Operation Torch which was Nov 8th 1942. If you look to the left of this there is mention of a Lieutenant D.A. Copperwheat. He was awarded the George Cross and this was published in the London Gazette on the 17th November 1942. Alongside his name the day Wednesday is mentioned. Nov. 18th 1942 was a Wednesday.

Thats brilliant !

I think the paper was a Manchester one (hopefully Manchester Evening News as it still exists...) so I will follow that lead - hopefully they will have a copy of the paper, see if there was any associated text.

I think the photo shows a section of South Lancs troops, it is a local paper after all, which if it is the case means I can stop searching earlier records & photo's.

Some of the things I am looking for I doubt I will ever find, but some I have uncovered ie jim was a real sportsman, boxing, rubgy & soccer - he said he played alongside a Man Utd player for his regt. - i have managed to identify this as Stan Pearson, Utd & England player under Busby, he was a territorial in the 2/4 South Lancs !

I'm pleased I am connecting folklore to fact, just be glad when the army records arrive!

Pete Keane wrote:Thats brilliant !

I think the paper was a Manchester one (hopefully Manchester Evening News as it still exists...) so I will follow that lead - hopefully they will have a copy of the paper, see if there was any associated text.

I think the photo shows a section of South Lancs troops, it is a local paper after all, which if it is the case means I can stop searching earlier records & photo's.

I would imagine that all the archives will be on microfiche or even, by now, transferred to computer media - you could be onto a winner here...

Pete Keane wrote:Some of the things I am looking for I doubt I will ever find, but some I have uncovered ie jim was a real sportsman, boxing, rubgy & soccer - he said he played alongside a Man Utd player for his regt. - i have managed to identify this as Stan Pearson, Utd & England player under Busby, he was a territorial in the 2/4 South Lancs !

I'm pleased I am connecting folklore to fact, just be glad when the army records arrive!

Fantastic work - all this research, detective work is so interesting, exciting and, hopefully, rewarding.
Don't forget to keep us all updated with your progress - it is always very encouraging to others when someone has a little success.

Nick

This is the other photo I now have:

It is Jim on the right, and a colleague on the left - my uncle thought it was Stan Pearson, but it isn't.

The background is, I think, a backdrop. I had hoped to pick some more clues, but unless someone recognizes either of them then, in clue terms, its a dead end.......however........I now have a good quality photo of Jim, which is light years ahead of where I was two weeks ago, plus the clipping which came out of the blue.

Spoke to the Central Library in Manchester - they have the newspapers there, going to coerce my Uncle to go in and see if he can find the picture and see if there was any text or story with it.

Regards

Pete

I seem to be on a bit of a roll at the moment !

I have pieced together the following dateline, and spoke to my uncle again - if I'm heading in the right direction then its possible Jim trained as a Commando in Scotland, or went to Burma with the South Lancs.

Jim was in the South Lancs in Nov. 1942 (from clipping)

In March 1943 the South Lancs trained at Inverary, home of the Combined Training Centre.

In July 1943 the 13th Battalion (Lancashire) Parachute Regiment was formed and trained at Ringway, Manchester - this was raised from volunteers from the 2/4 South Lancs.

Jim said he was in Scotland, and volunteered for parachute training because it was close to home (Salford).

When he sailed for India, he sailed down the Clyde (not Liverpool). The ship stopped off at Cape Town. The South Lancs sailed from Liverpool, via Freetown.

My uncle tells me that Jim then did 'Commando' training in India.

Jim told my dad that he parachuted into combat with the Chindits.

I am hamstrung at the moment by the lack of his service record, but will work on that next week.

Commando units were also trained at Inverary (250,000 men were) so this is still on the cards, but it is a big coincidence his mother regt. was there at a similar time?

Should be busy next week.

From a chindit website - the 5th Kings ( a chindit unit) joined the 2/4 lancs in April 1945 for a 500 mile march on Rangoon !

I reckon he served with the 2/4 Lancs throughout, not a commando unit.

I've still got to confirm all this, but I have come a long way in few short weeks.

Will let you know the final outcome - I have also come across some very good sites for research, I will make sure they are all posted up.

Cheers

Pete

Finally have his Service history, which has cleared up a lot of unknowns, but also added some!

Immediately after his ITC Training in 1940 he was posted to No.4 Command.....not No.4 Commando! No.4 Command was the army group to which the NW regiments fell under, including South Lancs.

He was posted to Kirkwall in the Orkneys - I have some work to do here as he spoke about specific operations from there, I guess the war diary of the 9th Bn. South Lancs will be necessary to fill in the gaps.

he went out to Burma in late 1944, and was injured in a glider crash in 1945 - again, South Lancs war diary should help. His story and his service record tie up.

So was he a Commando? Well, I doubt it - although there is a complete 2 year period missing up in Scotland, I think his name would have surfaced by now if he had been.

Am I bovvered.....

No, not really. I dont think Jim ever claimed to be a Commando - I remember him talking about the Chindits, and I know he fought alongside them, which is what he said.

I'm happy that the 'Commando' reference should just be 'Command'.

He was argumentative and fisty - on his records he was AWOL for about 40 days, and confined to barracks for 20, which he didnt mention, but I could have guessed.

In the meantime, I've done a lot of research on his mother Regiment and been able to help others, which I look forward to carrying on, so I'm happy.

Would I have wanted him to have been a Commando? Maybe. Which 5 year old doesn't believe their Grandad was a superhero in the war?

Overall, I'm just happy to know a bit about him that I didn't know before.

Regards all, will still be around!

Pete

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 11/05/2009 00:37:33

Pete.. from your research i am sure you now know that the South Lancashire Regiment was a great regiment with a proud history through both World Wars and before as can be seen thru this report from the Queens Lancashire Regt site:
The South Lancashire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Volunteers)

The South Lancashire Regiment was formed in 1881 as a result of the Cardwell reforms of the British Army.
With its Regimental Depot at Peninsula Barracks, Warrington, the Regiment initially consisted of two battalions, with the 1st formed from the former 40th Regiment of Foot, and the 2nd from the former 82nd.
The Regiment recruited primarily from that area of South Lancashire which is centred on the townships of Warrington and St Helens.
During World War I the Regiment expanded to a total strength of 21 battalions. They served on the Western Front, at Gallipoli, and in Macedonia, Egypt, Mesopotamia (modern-day Iraq) and India. In all, they were awarded a total of 64 Battle Honours. The Regiment suffered a total of 5450 casualties. Four members of the Regiment were awarded the Victoria Cross.
The Regiment was again expanded in World War II, to a total of 9 battalions. They served in North West Europe, Madagascar, India and Burma. On D-Day, 6 June 1944, the 1st Battalion was in the first wave to land on Sword Beach, Normandy, at the start of the invasion of Europe.
On 1st July 1958 the Regiment amalgamated with the East Lancashire Regiment to form The Lancashire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Volunteers), which in 1970, in turn amalgamated with The Loyal North Lancashire Regiment to form The Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

One fine soldier who came to the Commandos from the South Lancs was Captain Graeme Black DSO MC who was one of those executed on Operation Musketoon.
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/2/Operation+Musketoon/
I am sure there were many others

Your research is a fine tribute to your grandfather. They might have been in different services, even different countries, doing different tasks, but they all fought for the freedoms we have today. Thanks for sharing the results of your research with us.