Combined ops, Commando, LCT, LST & Landing Craft Association

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 16/05/2016 11:33:35

Dont know if my uncle Patrick Fitzpatrick was Combined ops LCT sailor and Commando or just Combined ops.

He was frequently in and out of Dundonald and Copra and Salsette.... NO craft was mentioned......

Posted for 9 days / 2 weeks etc then back to, a 'shore base'. Was this normal Combined ops service?

Was a Combined ops sailor attached regularly (as their own) to any specific RN beach commando unit? To a RM unit? To a LCT craft?

For example RN Beach Commando unit A&O&H were sent to HMS Salsette, HMS Breganza, Bombay, India July 1943. Also present were 3rd special service brig RM 42 & RM 44..... for ops in Burma.

Were ANY of these commando units supported by dedicated Combine ops personnel throughout all of their ops with dedicated Landing craft and dedicated Combined ops personnel.

For example Was RN sailor AB Joe Blogs of Combined Ops, 'always', posted with LC ship HMS LST and LCT 007 to support RNBC unit A or RM42........

mallonj67 wrote:Were ANY of these commando units supported by dedicated Combine ops personnel throughout all of their ops with dedicated Landing craft and dedicated Combined ops personnel.

My uncle (a Canadian volunteer) was a commission warrant with the RN from 1942 until discharged in 1945. Most combined ops commandos wore khaki, were assigned ranks and went ashore, but a greater part of the boat crews themselves were naval ratings. These crews had much greater roles than navigation and boat handling. Following the failed raid on Dieppe, the powers that be decreed no person would set foot on a beach again without adequate training and familiarization with beach tactics. Likewise, these crews served as trainers and mentors to new soldiers (namely Americans late for the war) for landings in Sicily, Burma and France (among other raids). They were also highly trained not just to land personnel and retreat, but to hold the beach in the event of counter attack, to provide logistical support to land based units and undertake the evacuation of dead and wounded.

I have a few requests pending on my uncle's specific service history, but have gained quite a lot of insight on his timeline nonetheless. Much of his mission was highly classified and on previous requests a lot of things were redacted. Now that time has passed and he's been dead more than twenty years, I'm expecting a reasonably complete service record this time around.

To address your question, yes. As a combined ops sailor, my uncle was a RN Commando, P.O. First Class Stoker and Motor Mechanic attached to flotillas in Morocco (Operation Torch), Sicily (Operation Husky) and mainland Italy before being transferred to the Jungle Warfare Training School in India, in late August or early September of 1943. Commando units were often reorganized, re-designated or disbanded, so any one person remaining in the same posting was unlikely. Even though service roles changed, my uncle always remained attached to landing craft.

Do you know what your uncle's rating and trade was? Do you have a service number? Like yourself, I'm curious about specific vessels and crew rosters, but this information is difficult obtain because many of the daily records of movements were destroyed in subsequent years although service records might pinpoint some assignments or postings. Some of the best findings are personal accounts from other sailors, their photographs and post-war writings.

In your example, you mentioned "A&O&H". Could you please explain what this unit is? I'm curious because the timeline coincides with my uncle's history and I'm looking under every rock for clues to my uncle's history. Likewise, I'm intrigued to research and browse images at the kedgehook.co.uk site, once the site is up.

Best of luck in your research.

Dave

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/05/2016 09:47:07

What an extremely interesting topic!
For some reason (probably because of a photo of dad with E Troop pre-D-Day) I'd overlooked the photo of the signatures from D Troop on the back of the Eisenhower message. He was in D Troop and therefore on the Maid of Orleans. I've read that 514 Assault Flotilla was involved - can someone explain what that means, please? One LCA, lots of them ... and is it possible to find out the number that dad would have landed on/in?

Dad's best mate, after the War, was a fella who lived down our street - Roy West. He was in the Royal Navy and I'm about to contact one of his daughters to find out how dad came to form such a firm friendship with him. I know there'll be a link to his own endeavours.

I think mallonj67 is referring to RN Commando 'A', RN Commando 'H' and RN Commando O'' especially as he mentions them all working with 3 Commando Brigade - which comprised of No.1 Commando, no.5 Commando, 42 RM Commando & 44 RM Commando operating in SEAC (South East Asia Command).

If that is the case then all I know about these RN Cdos is that 'H' was reformed in May '43, trained at Achnacarry & Inverary and was sent out to SEAC in July '43. [Actually RN Cdo 'N' also set sail for India on the same ship as 'H' but when they stopped at Durban, 'N' was sent back to the Mediterranean].

'H' was billetted in barracks in Bombay, which the Army had abandoned, which bore the name HMS Salsette

Having been dispatched from the UK at short notice during the summer of '43, 'A' and 'O' RN Cdos now joined 'H' in Bombay but, after a short period, they too were sent back to the Med to take part in the Elba & Anzio Landings.

'H' Commando was now under the commando of the exacting Anthony Cobham who expected the best from his men and worked them hard often giving lectures with quotes from the Bible.
In early '44 the RN Commandos recived orders to move and, entrained at Poona, their white uniforms were dyed khaki. However when they were actually engaged in operations in the Arakan, their "rig of the day" was khaki drill overalls, rope soled shoes and the bush hat...

Nick

Hi,

After the Elba Landings what was left of Oboe Commando joined Fox Commando.

Dad went to India with the 5th. Pontoon Party and then joined his unit at Sassoon Barracks.

He was involved in the search for gold bars when the freighter blew up in Bombay Harbour

After that came the Royal Indian Navy Mutiny which upset Dad as he was due to be posted back home.

I am going through his letters home to Mum which my younger Sister has posted to me.

Regards

My father, Cpl Herbert Squire was in the Royal Marines in WW2 PLY/x 101267(T). A.S. Group 30. He never discussed his time in the war except in very general times suggesting that he had not seen any action! There is so much that I could have asked if I had known and only found all this information when the family home was cleared out and put up for sale.

He enlisted to be at Lympstone on 16th Sep 1940 and served in The Eighth Army in North Africa and in the Sicily invasion beach landings (with bayonets drawn, so I am told) I know that he was with MNBDOll and travelled to West Africa and Cape Town before arriving in Egypt. he was also on Malta for a time. He was awarded, but did not claim, the medals for The North African Campaign and The Italian Campaign.

He also saved a form of ticket from the ship Royal Albert which showed his name and ''No Watch.

I have read much of the book 'By Sea and Land' - a history of the Royal Marine Commandos and this covers the MNBDOll in WW2. I have boxes full of memorabilia which my father had saved from the war from all the countries he had visited. I also have his uniform. An Iron Cross, A picture of Hitler in mint condition and various State and Crown messages to the troops in the Eighth Army. Also a booklet ' The Soldiers Guide to Sicily 1943'

He was given a New Testament and a postcard with a photograph of his pal on it. The New Testament is inscribed

''To my friend and comrade Cpl. H Squire Royal Marines, from Cpl Chas Spencer.
Augusta 12th July 1943''

I know that this is the date when the Eighth Army reached Augusta so they must have been grateful to have arrived there in one piece.

I also have documents to show that dad was in the 20th Beach Group in Catania Dec 1943 after spending several weeksin hospital with malaria and jaundice. Another booket is stamped %th (Indep) RM. Armd. Sp BTY 16th April 1944.

I am confused regarding the difference between th 5th Armd Support Battery, as mentioned above, and the 5th RM Anti Aircraft Brigade, which I think he was also in and they served in the defence of the Schelt Estuary and River Orne in 1944 according to 'By Sea and Land' in the early autmn of 1944. Dad also had a printed flyer from Dwight Eisenhower which was issued to all the troops in the Allied Expeditionary Force 1944 just prior to the D Day Landings. Could he have taken part in this as well? His servive records also mention L.U.C.C.A Could this be anything to do with Landing Craft. He was a Fitter by trade in the forces.

I have so many questions that remain unanswered I would be so grateful if anyone can throw light on my queries. Lastly, as the MNBDOll is covered in the book 'By Sea and Land', a history of the Royal Marines, does this mean that dad was classed a s a commando please?

Many Thanks for anyone's comments

Eileen Turner

To Eileen Turner re your

He also saved a form of ticket from the ship Royal Albert which showed his name and ''No Watch.

I am wondering if this might have been HMS Prins Albert?

Regards