Retrieval of the Fallen and Christian Burial in WW2

Hello everyone. I have been trying to find information on how the bodies of the fallen were retrieved during WW2 and what provisions were in place to provide them with a Christian burial (assuming of course that a particular individual was Christian) . In particular I am interested in what provisions were possible and/or available for fallen soldiers who were members of non Anglican denominations. I am particularly interested in how things worked in Burma. I would be grateful for any assistance.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 14/08/2017 22:32:40

Hi Thomas,

There have been Chaplains (Padres) serving with the Army for many years serving in the same conditions as their armed colleagues...
The Army Chaplains' Department was formed in 1796.
In 1879 The Reverend James Williams Adams was the first clergyman to be awarded the VC as he served with the 9th Lancers at Killa Kazi.
Roman Catholic clergy joined the Department in 1836, followed by the Presbyterians in 1858, Wesleyans in 1881 and Jews in 1892.

During WWI, names such as 'Woodbine Willy' and 'Tubby' Clayton became synomynous with the bringing of comfort, care and compassion to those caught up in the bloodiness of war.
The Reverends Theodore Bayley DSO, MC, VC, Noel Mellish VC, MC and WRF Addison VC stood as marks of the commitment of the Chaplains to serve wherever the British soldier was to be found, and at whatever the personal cost.
179 Chaplains died during the war.
In recognition of their devoted work since 1914, King George V conferred the prefix 'Royal' on the Army Chaplains' Department (RACD).

In WWII, new formations such as The Commandos and Airborne Forces had Padres learning new skills such as parachuting.
A number of Padres attached to Commando Units chose to complete the Commando Training at Achnacarry.
This link takes you to the photo of The Rev Gareth Banting, KIA whilst serving with No.2 Commando...

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/2/Padre+Gareth+Banting+-+No_2+Commando.jpg.html

The fortitude of devoted Chaplains such as The Reverends 'Happy' Harry Thorpe and HLO Davies in the prison camps of the far East sustained the captives during the horrors of life and death on the Burma-Siam Railway
and of the notorious Shamshuipo Camp.

96 British and 38 Commonwealth Army Chaplains died during WWII

As far as was possible the bodies of the fallen were recovered by their colleagues.

We have photos in the Gallery of burials being carried out in the Field - these two links will show a burial of a member of No.5 Cdo being conducted by military chaplain in Burma.

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/5/Commandos_in_Far_East_date_unknown_possible_church_parade.JPG.html

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/5/Army074.jpg.html

Nick

Hi Nick

Thanks for your reply. There is a lot of interesting detail there which I was not aware of, such as the history of army chaplaincy, notable chaplains and the number of army chaplains who lost their lives. I haven't worded my original question that well however. While I was aware that the army chaplains existed in WW2, I don't know much about how they actually operated and how much access soldiers would have had to them on a day to day to basis and also if required after their deaths to officiate their funerals.

I suppose in a nutshell, what I am asking is would there always have been a chaplain of the correct denomination available to officiate at a fallen soldier's funeral ? I have heard that burial had to happen quite quickly in Burma because of the climate.

For example this memorial service for No.1 Commando http://www.commandoveterans.org/node/2319 , would all of these men have had an earlier funeral, or were they buried with a later memorial service because of a lack of chaplains ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 15/08/2017 22:49:05

Hi Thomas,

Graham Cooper and I have been working on a list of Chaplains attached to the Commandos. Thus far we have been unable to determine which denomination of each Padre but our list does show them to have been attached to a particular Commando rather than just to the Brigade HQ.
Therefore, I believe that there was always a Padre on hand to officiate at a burial.

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 16/08/2017 22:57:42

Further to my last post, I was looking through the War Diaries of No.9 Cdo and found the attached...

The Rev Maugham remained attached to No.9 Cdo until Apr '44 when he was replaced by the Rev John Birkbeck

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/08/2017 15:24:17

Hi Nick

Thanks for your replies, sorry I have been a bit slow myself.

[but our list does show them to have been attached to a particular Commando rather than just to the Brigade HQ.
Therefore, I believe that there was always a Padre on hand to officiate at a burial.
quote]

That is reassuring. Out of interest, how are you going about researching the denominations of the different chaplains ? The only way I can think of if those details are not included in the military records is by contacting different dioceses or other unit of church governance and asking to look at their archives. This may prove even harder with the Catholic Church as sometimes the priest would have been under the jurisdiction of an order rather than a geographical diocese, so it becomes a case of knowing which records you need to search in.

Finally, on the list you posted, was that a list of the total number of chaplains who served with No.1 Commando and they were not necessarily all there at the same time (i.e. some were replacements of others in the list) or was it a snapshot of one period of time ? I note the example you give of Fr Maugham, who was obviously serving for a considerable period of time

Thanks

Tom

I have just noticed this online and am posting this in any case it is of any use to you Nick or anyone else

http://www.rcbishopricforces.org.uk/

Sorry, forgot to add that it is a diocese in its own right but non geographical, so may have useful records

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/08/2017 18:27:51

Hi Nick

Thanks for your replies, sorry I have been a bit slow myself.

...but our list does show them to have been attached to a particular Commando rather than just to the Brigade HQ.
Therefore, I believe that there was always a Padre on hand to officiate at a burial..

That is reassuring. Out of interest, how are you going about researching the denominations of the different chaplains ? The only way I can think of if those details are not included in the military records is by contacting different dioceses or other unit of church governance and asking to look at their archives. This may prove even harder with the Catholic Church as sometimes the priest would have been under the jurisdiction of an order rather than a geographical diocese, so it becomes a case of knowing which records you need to search in.

Finally, on the list you posted, was that a list of the total number of chaplains who served with No.1 Commando and they were not necessarily all there at the same time (i.e. some were replacements of others in the list) or was it a snapshot of one period of time ? I note the example you give of Fr Maugham, who was obviously serving for a considerable period of time

hi Tom,

To be honest it was just a stroke of luck - or divine intervention - that I decided to re-read the No.9 Cdo War Diaries and picked Sept '43 to start...
There it was - the first time I've been able to pin down a denomination to a chaplain and I got three!

As with the Commando Nominal Rolls, the list of Padres is far from definitive. We gather the names from pouring over War Diaries, documents, books etc. We know from experience that there is often confusion, these days, regarding Commando Units and Commando Brigades but we soldier on [sic].
I would think that there was a group of Padres (of the various denominations) based with Cdo Brigade HQ and each would spend periods with the individual units...
There may also have been a 'pool' of Padres at the 2nd Echelon - which in 3 Commando Brigades case (No.1 Cdo, No.5 Cdo, 42 RM Cdo & 44 RM Cdo) was in Jhansi, India

Certainly this still needs a lot more research - but at least we have made a start.
Thanks for the link - hopefully it will lead on to more information...

Nick

Hi Tom,

Airborne rather than Commandos but I think it's relevant to our discussion - it shows the mettle of the Chaplains and illustrates that these men would not flinch at administering Late Rites to dying soldiers even though they were exposed and under fire at the time...

http://www.89fss.com/affiliated/rachd.htm

Nick

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 18/08/2017 18:31:10

Hi Tom,

A quick search of the IWM Website produced this photo taken at a Combined Ops Chaplains' Meeting on 12 April 1944 at the Combined Ops HQ. A conference of Royal Navy and Army Chaplains who served Combined Ops personnel and Commando Units was held under the direction of their Senior Chaplain, The Rev B G Beale, RN.

Pictured are (left to right): with Rev R Haw, RNVR; Rev C Pritchard, CF; Rev C Hughes, RN; Rev J Armstrong, OBE, RN, Senior Chaplain, SS Group; Rev C Costello, RN; General Officer Commanding SS Group, Major General R G Sturges, RM; Rev H Kennen, RNVR; Rev D I R Thomas, CF; Rev J A Corvett, CF; Rev D L Williams, CF; Rev T R Colman, RNVR; Rev C O A Darby, RN.

All the pictured Chaplains, with the exception of Rev C Darby, RN, are on the list of Chaplains that I posted previously.

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/08/2017 01:13:32

Hi Tom,

Here's another Padre, this time it's Rev John Wallis, DSC, RNVR. Rev Wallis served with 2 Cdo Brigade when they were at Salerno in Italy.

Nick

another of Rev John Wallis seen here with Colour Sergeant A Dunn, RM, and Sergeant J W Tanswell RM.

Nick

Hi Nick

Thanks, that is all very interesting and does paint more of a picture of life as a military chaplain. By the way there is a lead I am looking into - it may come to nothing but if not I will certainly get back to you

Hi Tom,

I know I haven't been able to answer your specific questions but I do hope that it has, as you say, made the position of a Commando Chaplain a little clearer.
I hope your lead does come to something and look forward to hearing the result.

Since you raised the question about Padres, I have done a wee bit more simple research over the last few days and have been able to update the Commando Chaplains' Nominal Roll - unsurprisingly, a number of them were awarded the DSC.

Nick