Commandos missing in action on Pimple Hill, Salerno 1943?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/03/2017 14:00:53

Dear friends,
our association find yesterday some human remains of 2 english soldiers on Pimple Hill. We informed italian Police and Casualty Centre of british Ministry of Defence.
Do you know if in battle for Pimple Hill there were some commandos missing in action? Many thanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/03/2017 17:35:36

I will have a look this weekend at what we have in more detail but thought I would bring this document to your attention in case you had not seen it. It relates to the original burying of some No 2 Commandos.

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/Commando+War+Graves+Memorials+and+Plaques/graves/War+Graves+Italy/salerno/salerno+casualties/

and again this link which is for those with no known grave remembered on the Cassino War Memorial. Obviously there are names from actions other than Salerno but a starting point for those from Salerno from No 2 Commando. I have been adding these bio pages to our website and No 2 Commando ROH is complete for each man who died. 41 RM Commando who were also involved is not complete so will not be on this link.

Cassino War Memorial.

Regards

Pete.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 03/03/2017 17:53:07

In addition to the above the following from No 2 Commando and 41RM Commando have no known grave and died during the action. Obviously this covers all dates of the operation not just the Pimple.

No.2 Commando

Remembered on the Brookwood Memorial

Gunner Charles Burns, age 23, who died on 13th September 1943

No.41 RM Commando

Remembered on the Portsmouth Memorial

Marine Harry Brotton, age 22, was died on the 9 September 1943
Marine Alexander Kennedy, age 21, who died on the 10 September 1943
Marine Robert Felstead, age 22, who died on the 10 September 1943
Lance Corporal Henry Smith, age 22, who died on the 11 September 1943.
Lance Corporal Ernest Finch, age 21, who died on the 12 September 1943
Sergeant Major Norman Tierney, Mentioned in Despatches, age 35, who died on the 13 September 1943.
Marine Andrew Harris, age 41, who died on the 17 September 1943 - 18 September 1943.
Marine Peter Toner who died between 17 and 18 September 1943.

Remembered on the Plymouth Memorial

Lance Corporal George Bowering, age 24, who died on the 10 September 1943
Captain, Ronald Stott, age 22, who died on the 10 September 1943
Colour Serjeant, James Twigger, Mentioned in Despatches, age 30, who died on the 10 September 1943
Marine George Wassall who died on the 17 September 1943

Remembered on the Chatham Memorial

Marine Robert Ball, aged 19, who died on the 10th September 1943
Marine Joseph Betts who died on the 13th September 1943
Sergeant Donald Charles Bullock DCM MM, who died on the 13th September 1943
Marine Patrick Joseph Cuff, who died on the 10th September 1943
Marine Arthur Stiles, who died on the 18th September 1943.

Dear Pete
many thanks for your precious informations. Pimple Hill is in PIEGOLETTE (in italian PIEGOLELLE) area. So we can remove from the list all commandos killed in Vietri or Dragone (Dragonea) area. About you knowledge how many commandos were MIA in Piegolette area? I believe remains we find can be of someone of them.

I hope MoD can compare DNA with relatives of MIA like they do with other 2 british soldiers remains we find in 2014. For more informations see here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/25/remains-young-british-soldier-killed-action-italy-identified/

Very interesting.

Do we know if any of No.4 lost their lives on the Pimple ... or, indeed, at Salerno?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 03/03/2017 23:12:43

Never having been to the area, and not knowing exactly where the find was made, it is difficult to gauge, with the exception of No 2 Commando, exactly which units casualties with no known grave should be checked. The relevant dates I believe as far as the Commandos are concerned would be around the 17th/18th. However as described below other units were involved as well.

As I understand it No 2 Commando were first tasked to relieve a company of soldiers from the Oxford and Buckinghamshire Regiment (Ox and Bucks) on the Pimple. This they did on the 15th September and to my knowledge No 2 Commando had no men missing this successful action. Whether the Ox and Bucks did whilst they were up there I do not know.

The Commandos were then ordered back down, and German troops moved back onto the Pimple.

Then an order was given for the Commandos to retake the Pimple. Just before dawn , 2 troops of No 2 Commando were involved in the attack on the Pimple, No 2 Commando 1 troop and No 2 Commando 2 troop (sourced from the War Diary for No 2 Commando), the latter being led by Captain the Duke of Wellington who was killed during this action. He is buried at Salerno War Cemetery. They came under withering enemy fire and 2 troop in particular suffered a lot of casualties. They were ordered to withdraw.

Then 41RM Commando who had been on the hill to the right of the Pimple, known by Commandos as 41 Commando Hill, were ordered to be part of another attempt to take the Pimple. Unfortunately as they approached the start line of the attack on the Pimple artillery fire from our own side landed amongst them causing many casualties, and the attack was called off. (Sourced from the book Operation Avalanche by Des Hickey and Gus Smith).

So addressing No 2 Commando casualties based on the date and the document outlined in my first response, the following should definitely be considered:

Private Frederick Radcliffe who has no known grave. He is shown by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission as dying on the 13th however the document conflicts with this, and shows his death as being on the 17th, and his being initially buried at Piegolette, his grave being marked with a cross.

From 41RM Commando

PO/X 108595 Marine Andrew Harris

PLY/X 110255 Marine George Wassall

Marine Arthur Stiles

Marine Peter Toner

Of course there may well be others who were not Commandos.

Should anyone else have other information please add it to this forum thread.

For your information I have now emailed the MOD Joint Casualty and Compassionate Centre (JCCC) whom you informed and the Commonwealth War Graves commission (CWGC) so that they can see the details on this forum message.

Roll of Honour from the Evening Express 18th November 1943.

Thanks to Pete, Eileen and Guy for your precious help. Yes we informed Sue Raftree of MoD JCCC sending them a complete photos reportage with human remains we find, place, equipment parts, etc. We hope this office can be helped from your knowledge of Commandos history to contact relatives of MIA to compare DNA with remains we find like they do with Roland George Blackham.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/03/2017 09:49:29

Such a great thing that's being done - thank you.

I only ask about No.4 as my father volunteered to fight with No.2 and have often wondered who else, if anybody, went with him from his Unit.

Good luck and I hope the families of these brave men can be found. I might manage to get over to the Pimple one day - that photo has made me want to go even more.

Hi Everyone
Last June when we visited the " Pimple " our guide was Mateo from the Salerno 1943 group .He spent an entire afternoon with us and took us to the cemetery as well . It was something I will never forget .
I am guessing that it is Mateo who has posted this information here .

Pete , it's great that you can provide some names so as to narrow down the possibilities and help identify the remains of the fallen In the picture posted of the Pimple ,looking down the hill you are facing north .This is the longest and least steep approach .l have attached a few more pictures to give a better perspective of the surrounding area . Near the top of the south side of the hill are two hydro electric towers and the lines run to the east to Pigollele.

Looking back from the autostrade you can see the electric towers and the approach to the Pimple

Thank you!

Just thinking of the 75th Anniversaries. Going to Dieppe this year, Flushing and Ouistreham's are in '19 ... Salerno is next year. Hmmm ....

Yes, Dusty's Son, I'm Matteo....
And the remains we find are very near (1\2 meters) the place where I take a photo of you and your wife with my daughter. Can I post it if I find?
This is the Telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/06/italians-find-remains-british-soldiers-thought-have-died-wwii/

Hello Matteo
If it is ok with the site administrators then of course you can post our pictures .For privacy reasons I did not mention your daughter was with us as well .

Eileen , the Pimple is very difficult to locate without the aid of a guide .If you go I can highly recommend Matteo both as a historian and a gentleman .Hopefully ,If you go next year they will have identified the recently discovered remains .