Rising Sun - Kangaw

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/11/2016 05:09:18

Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and have joined to ask for some help please.

Being an ex submariner I have a passion for military history. Over the years I have acquired some fascinating pieces. Two of which I am working on now. One being a Boulton's Trafalgar Medal inscribed by a crew member of HMS Victory and the other is a Japanese Battle Ensign. The latter is what I would like some help on.

Nick has very kindly been helping me and is about to upload some photos of a stunning piece of history I purchased from a Graeme Davidson in 2010. He is the son of Peter Davidson x Troop 42 RM who served in Burma and more specifically took a flag from hill 170.

On this stunning Japanese Ensign is a further 88 signatures! I have photographed and where possible identified the scribbles. These are now with Nick and soon to be available publicly on your forum.

My plan is to create a crowd funding page to raise funds to conduct a full research study on this flag, the battle from where it was recovered and God willing maybe even find a survivor who put pen to this flag.

Any excess funds from this crowd funding project will be used/distributed to veterans associations. Again, any one more computer savvy than me would be greatly appreciated!!

If anyone recognises any of the names on this flag please get in touch! Photograph's, documents, anecdotes, personal histories, anything will be greatly appreciated.

Any volunteers to buddy up with me on this project? I live in Sussex.

Yours Aye

Kes

hi Kes,

Welcome to the CVA Website & Forums. It was good to chat with you this evening and I look forward to further chats in the future.
The flag is indeed an interesting piece of history - thank you very much for sharing it with us and I hope there are names of commandos from 42 RM Cdo that can be added to the Nominal Roll.

In return, I'm sure we can add to the information I have already sent you.

Yours Aye,

Nick

Hello Kes

Glad to see you are having some success with the flag ID's.

Where did you find the names of the 42 Cdo X Troop? I think I have a photo of them somewhere.

Best regards

John M

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/11/2016 05:10:28

Good morning John,

All I have at the moment is the nominal role of 42 Commando. A lot of the names on this flag are not on this existing roll.

A prime example is Sgt Ray (Raymond William) Esther MM. He was known to be in 47 and 42 commando yet is not on the nominal roll.

Which photograph do you have please? I have photographed all the signatures close up and these will be in the gallery soon.

Kind regards

Kes

Hello Kes

I was posting from memory. The photo I have is X Troop 47 RM Commando. I have just sorted it out of my archive. Sorry to put up a false hope.

Where did you obtain NR of 42RM ?

This is a very interesting piece to research and I look forward to your results.
Best regards

John M

Hello John,

I got the list via Nick and was trying to cross reference. I don't believe the list is comprehensive or complete, especially as I went on the 47 Commando website last night and found even more unknown names.

I think as soon as my photographs are uploaded to your forum gallery I will create and excel spreadsheet which is amendable by all.

Kind regards

Kes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 21/11/2016 11:39:17

Hello Kes

Yes that's Ok. I was just wondering as you have to be careful about the integrity of these lists. We here on the site are very careful to check sources and to keep the information we publish as accurate as possible.
It looks like you are taking the correct precautions.

Good luck with your continued research.
Best regards
John M

Sgt Esther MM, 47 and 42RM Commandos, was a member of the original Commando Association.

London Gazettes Supplement 37110, page 2852 :

Marine (Acting Temporary Sergeant) Raymond William Wade ESTHER, R.M., CH/X.114336 awarded the Military Medal for gallantry, determination and great devotion to duty during assault operations on Walcheren and Flushing.

47RM Commando was one of the units that took part in this action http://www.commandoveterans.org/Walcheren

Here is an overall image of the Japanese Flag owned by Kes bearing a total of 89 signatures (including 3 Japanese signatures!).
It is reasonable to assume that, as there are a number of signatures that have been positively identified as belonging to commandos of 42 RM Cdo - and more specifically, X Troop - that all the signatories belong to 42 RM Cdo.
Kes has photographed each individual signature and has given me permission to upload them to the Website.
I will be uploading the photos to a sub-album in the Gallery in the very near future and provide a link to it from this thread.

Nick

Kes' photos of the captured Japanese Battle Flag have now been uploaded to the Gallery.

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/documents/Flag/

It was originally thought that all the signatures on it belonged to 42 RM Cdo but, on closer inspection, there are also signatures from No.1 Cdo.

3 Commando Brigade was made up of four Commando Units - No.1 Cdo, No.5 Cdo, 42 RM Cdo & 44 RM Cdo.

For most of the Brigade's operations, No.1 Cdo was paired up with 42 RM Cdo and No.5 Cdo was paired up with 44 RM Cdo.

Nick

Kes Travers wrote:
especially as I went on the 47 Commando website last night and found even more unknown names...

Hi Kes, although Sgt Esther, MM, is listed as serving in 42 & 47 RM Cdo, I wouldn't bother checking the lists of 47 RM Cdo for names on your flag - 47 RM Cdo didn't serve in the Far East the time of the Battle of Hill 170.

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23/11/2016 05:10:43

Good morning Nick,

This is fantastic work! Thank you!!

Also your discovery of No 1 Commando signatures and the knowledge of the relationship between No1 and 42 Commando units within 3 Brigade is the break we needed on this.

Now there is a much bigger chance of finding the men, their stories and possibly even family members that may have photographs, documents and anecdotes to build a much bigger picture.

Again my thanks and I will now start on the cross referencing.

Kindest regards

Kes

Wow! What a wonderful thing!

Signature no. 40, JW Green, looks like '??? Forest' to me.

I wish you success in finding out more about the men who have signed the flag.

Best regards,

Julie

Julie W wrote:

Signature no. 40, JW Green, looks like '??? Forest' to me.

Julie

Yes I agree with 'Forest,' but what is the first word...

Tro.... Tra... ?

Nick

Trawden Forest?

It's in Lancashire.