RoH Cdo Bde and Trainining

Pete,

More names for consideration to add to the various RoH's

C.B.T.C.

6983742.Fus.James SCULLION,Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers,died by drowning 28-11-41.
CWGC shows regt only,Westminster Abbey RoH (WAROH),and Defe 2/843 show CBTC,also initials shown as S
while CWGC has J as initial,also as an observation although he died Nov 1941, wasn't CBTC opened later in .
1942.

2828784. Lcpl. George McLEAN, Seaforth Hldrs,died training 31-8-42.
CWGC shows regt only,and both WAROH/Defe 2/843 show CBTC.

14430189.Pte.Pierce ASHLEY, Kings Regt, died Achnacarry 17-9-43.
CWGC shows regt only,WAROH/Defe 2/843 show CBTC,they also both show his ser no as 14420189.

14604147. Pte. Frederick..E. WELCH. Queens Royal Regt., died 14-9-43.
CWGC shows regt only,WAROH/DEFE show CBTC,not shown on ALREWAS panels.

5509745. Pte.Patrick McCARTHY, West Yorks Regt,died by drowning during trg in the U.K. 28-11-41.
CWGC shows regt only,WAROH/DEFE show CBTC,again note date,and the CBTC opening.

328576. Pte Charles H. SWEENEY,Royal Warwickshire Regt,died Achnacarry by drowning 4-7-44
CWGC shows Regt only,WAROH/DEFE show CBTC.

14419989.Rfn.Herbert COOK. K.R.R.C.died Achnacarry 13-9-43.
CWGC shows regt only,WAROH / DEFE shows CBTC

998913.Gnr. Alan A. HAYDON, Royal Artillery,died by drowning 28-11-41.
CWGC shows regt only,WAROH / DEFE show CBTC,Alrewas panel shows him as 3 Cdo,again problem with dates.

There are a few more to go with these,but later

Regards

Graham

Hi Graham

Can you clarify about the 2 sources you refer to. DEFE 2/843 is this a copy of the Westminster Abbey Roll of Honour list that I sent you, ie are all the names identical ?

I have been thinking over this for the last couple of days. It would have to be officially established that those who died in any training were actually attached to a Commando for them to be listed in our ROH for Commandos. The fact they are not shown on the CWGC as attached to a Commando unit is likley to be because they had not finished their Commando training. That is not to say that the CWGC database does not have some inaccuracies in this respect. However as the CWGC do not accept the Westminster Abbey Roll of Honour as proof of service in a Commando because it (the Abbey ROH) in itself has many errors, we have to be careful.

However that is not to say that we could not add a list of names to our site of those who died in Commando training. Can you create one list of all those whom you find died in training and are shown CBTC on the Roll of Honour. If you are unable to establish a Commando Unit then we will list them as died at some stage in training as per the Westminster Abbey ROH. I think in the circumstances all we will need is a one liner entry with the following detail in alphabetical order by surname. Service numbers will not be included:

George McLEAN, LCpl., Seaforth Hldrs, 31-8-42.

Graham,
I have been interested why three of the four men involved in the training accident are not listed as Commando's. I found some additional information on Haydon's Royal Artillery attestaion paperwork. From the short time he was attached (20 days) I assumed he didn't complete his Commando training.

998913 HAYDON Alan Albert Gnr Royal Artillery (34th Signal Training Regiment).
Transferred to Training Centre (CD) on the 8/11/41
Drowned on the 28/11/41
Special Service cancelled on 31/1/42

He does appear on the 3 Commando nominal roll.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2457738/HAYDON,%20ALAN%20ALBERT

Of the four men who died in the drowning incident the only man listed as a Commando:

4203290 TURNER Frederick William Morgan Cpl. Gloucestershire Regiment and 12 Commando.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2457746/TURNER,%20FREDERICK%20WILLIAM%20MORGAN

5509745 McCARTHY Patrick Pte. West Yorkshire Regiment is also buried in Fort William Cemetery.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2457742/McCARTHY,%20PATRICK%20%28PAT%29

Guy

Pete,

Regarding the Westminster Roll of Honour and the DEFE 2/843 they are similar,but different format,the Defe list shows serial numbers ,if you let me know what address to use I can send you a copy.

Regards

Graham