No 2 Para Cdo

Hi,
Just been reading up on the birth of the Parachute Regiment.

The original 2 Para Cdo was formed I believe on 22 June 1940,and comprised of two troops , C and D troop.
On 21 Nov 1940 ,was renamed 11 Special Air Service Battalion,then in Sept.1941 again renamed -The Parachute Regiment.

My question is, was there ever an A and B troop formed in that first period up to 21 Nov 1940,and if so, does anyone know of its history.

Regards

Graham

Hi Graham,
on the 22nd of July 1940 Churchill issued an instruction to General Sir Hastings Ishmay stating that he thought we need to form a corps at least of 5000 parachute troops which would include Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians and also to include troops from Norway and France.
The previous day the Central Landing School at Ringway came into being. The first recruits came from the commandos specifically 2 Commando from Knutsford in Cheshirte. On the 9th of July B and C troops arrived for training under Flight Sergeant William Brereton and 14 other men from the RAF and Regimental Sergeant Major Mansie and 9 others from the Army Physical Training Centre.
They had no equipment, no training modules, no pre-plane jump apparatus all they had was a few hundred parachutes and 6 obsolete Mk III Whitley bombers.
Hope this will be of some use to you.
Alan.

Hi All

Thanks for the reply.

Any information is gratefully received , as I have only just started to research this subject.

The CVA has some information,but the Parachute Regt,really starts is history with the 11 Special Air Service Battalion,with just a passing mention of 2 Para Cdo.

In your reply you mentioned a RSM Mansie,was he training staff or 2 Para Cdo ?.

I cannot understand the lack of information - the SAS made/makes an big deal of the "originals" who formed the SAS,but nothing from the Parachute regt,in fact almost the reverse.

Does anyone know if there is any war diaries that cover 2 Para Cdo or 11 SAS.Bn,I've looked and found medal recommendations for 11 SAS.Bn ,but nothig else.

Thanks again

Graham

Hi Graham,

Have you seen this? It does give a fairly detailed history of the formation of the Paras...

http://www.paradata.org.uk/articles/extended-history-no-2-parachute-commando

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 15/02/2015 23:54:17

Hi Graham

Don't confuse the 11th SAS Bn withe later Special Air Service. They were not linked. There is a book called Striking Back , Britains Airborne and Commando Raids 1940-42 by Niall Cherry that has a chapter on the 11th SAS Bn. The Commando did not arrive for parachute training as a complete unit with only 2 troops arriving initially followed by the rest later. Additionally Major Jimmy Dunning has a section of his book British Commandos - the origins and training of an elite unit, with information about the move from 2 Para Cdo to 11 SAS Bn there were several fatal accidents in training with Dvr Evans (RASC) being the first.

In Memory of T/175282 Driver Ralph Evans
Royal Army Service Corps and No 2 Commando
Who died on the 25th July 1940
Remembered with honour at Walton on Thames (St Mary) Churchyard

Just to add a bit about the name, this was during the period that the Commandos were briefly renamed Special Service Bn's so for No 2 being para, they became Special Air Service Battalion. As to why 11th well I don't know. I wonder could it be simply propaganda, ie. making it look as if there were a lot more airborne than there actually were.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 16/02/2015 08:16:55

Hi Graham,
RSM Mansie was from the Army Physical Training Centre and was there to oversee training.
The training staff at Ringway had to improvise very quickly a programme of training baring in mind none of them would have had any experience in this area and worked enthusiastically around the clock to get the project off the ground which took around 2 months to come up with the required training programme. one problem that they faced and overcame was the bulkiness of the parachutist's clothing which led them to finally jumping in battledress and Dennison smock.
Actually jumping from the Whitley was a problem and initially they jumped from where the rear turret had been, this had been removed to allow them to exit the aircraft, as the man jumped an instructor would pull his rip cord this proved to be unsafe and unsatisfactory so they cut a hole in the floor of the Whitley again this proved unsatisfactory as the jumper had to make a perfect exit other wise he would smack his head on the edge of the hole.There followed a third method which was through a hole or door cut out of the fuselage. They also ditched the standard issue 'bail out' parachute for the newer X-Type Statistute.
August came and 290 trainees had progressed to regular practice jumps and by September had completed 1000 jumps. The failure rate during this period was low with only 30 refusals, 13 injuries and 2 deaths when the parachutes failed to open and 13 of their number were returned to unit being deemed unsuitable for the continuing on the course.
After 6 months some 488 men had completed the course. Churchill was not impressed with such a low figure and let his feelings be known but by now those who had passed the course now became the 11th Special Service Battalion and they were split into a parachute wing and a glider wing.
By now there was a certain amount of discontent amongst their ranks and many applied to be returned to their parent regiments as they appeared to be falling foul to operations planned and then duly cancelled not dissimilar to those men in Layforce, all applications were duly refused and things began to look differently in January 1941 when all officers and men volunteered for a trial operation and as they say the rest is history.

Alan.

Many years ago I read a book about Operation Colossus and I'm sure it gives a good account of the early training, it's by Raymond Foxall and was called The Guniea Pigs, published in 1983 by Robert Hale Limited ISBN709007620. Sadly I no longer have my copy but you can get a copy off Amazon in hardback, the cheapest price at the moment is £12.50 plus p&p.
Alan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 16/02/2015 15:19:16

Extract from Men of the Red Beret by Max Arthur
Early Days - Major Tony Hibbert, No.2 Commamdo.
"I volunteered for No. 2 (Parachute) Commando, and joined it in October 1940. After completing my five parachute jumps at Ringway and Tatton Park and getting my wings, I was sent to Scotland to recruit officers and other ranks for my troop. On the day I got back, in December, they change the name to 11th Special Air Service Battalion (Parachute Wing). This made little difference to us, and we proceeded with our training, such as it was".

Kevin

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 16/02/2015 16:08:30

A link to the sale of medals (that has already taken place) of Lieutenant P.P. 'Clem' Clements of the Parachute Regiment and X Troop 11 SAS. The sale was by Spinks and the following detail is from a notice on their website:

On the outbreak of WWII, Clements volunteered for special service, and was enlisted No. 2 (Parachute) Commando in the recently formed British Airborne Forces, subsequently to become X Troop 11 SAS. Clements took part in the first British Airborne Raid, Operation Colossus, to parachute in and destroy an aqueduct over the River Tragino, south-western Italy. As the senior NCO in the operation, he was awarded the Military Medal for his gallantry. Taken POW during the operation, he undertook clandestine operations for MI9 whilst imprisoned in Sulmona Camp. Successfully escaping, his work was recognised by the award of the Distinguished Conduct Medal. Having being repatriated to the United Kingdom, he was Commissioned into the Parachute Regiment, leading his men with distinction against heavy armour in the Forests of Ardenne in 1945. Wounded four times, he was awarded his third and final gallantry award, the Military Cross.

https://www.spink.com/press-releases/medals-soar-at-spink-auction.aspx

Hi All

Many thanks for the response ,plenty there to read up and keep me out of trouble for a fair time.

Going to the National Achieves tomorrow, armed with my list of file to read.

Again many thanks

Graham