POX/111957 Cpl Jack Williams

My grandfather was a ww2 Royal Marine Commando who served under Lord Lovat, i have his discharge papers (copies) from DRORM, and his medals 39-45 star France and Germany star, war medal, defence medal, he didnt speak to much about his service, but did mention Lovat , D,Day, Belsen, and Nurembourg i have interpreted his papers to a degree, but they are not complete ,my gran used to tell me he was in France , Germany
and Holland , he was in a camp in Southhampton prior to D,Day and had all his mail censored, unfortunately my grandparents both passed away a long time ago. If anyone can throw any light on Hms Oddyssey 1944 and NP1749 Royal Albert i would appreciate any help, i believe a good friend of his in the war was a sailor (chief petty officer) . I know 45 R.M. Commando were in lovats 1st Commando brigade just need any pointers on Oddyssey and NP 1749, I know oddyssey was in ilfracombe as a admin office and NP1749 was in Germany also as Admin , and there were 2 R.M. Commandos in Germany stationed there at the time he was there, and he was also at Munster where some of the commandos were billeted. Any one who can offer information would be much appreciated.I know there used to be a F/S dagger in the family years ago.

Regards Craig Summerhill

Hi Craig,
Welcome to the CVA Forums.

As I said on the CVA Page on Facebook, I think you need to look at HMS Excellent II (Naval Party Accounting Base) which later became HMS Appledore II which later became HMS Odyssey. These are all listed as Combined Ops bases.
You may also want to look at HMS Evolution which is also listed as becoming HMS Odyssey...
There seemed to be a habit of changing the names of shore bases - whether that was to confuse the enemy or future researchers I'm not really sure...

I think that to describe HMS Odyssey as an 'Admin' Base was possibly an understatement meant to disguise the real function of the Base.

Nick

Craig,

ROYAL ALBERT - was the name given to Naval Party 1749 as part of the occupying forces in Germany.

Accounts and admin. at Princess Gardens, London SW7 up to 1 April 1945 when shifted to Minden, then from Sep. 1945 at Hamburg. In Mar. 1951 to Cuxhaven. Finally paid off 16 July 1957.

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 12/01/2013 21:12:09

Hi Craig,

In addition to Nic's comments, there are some links for HMS Odyssey but for Naval party 1570 in this thread http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/15/1401.page#12774
There is also a service record for Herbert [Harry] John Victor Coote, with an entry for Odyssey.

It might be worth working with the creator of that thread bowtr to try and discover more about Odyssey, and let us know what you find.

Good luck.

Mark

Thanks for the tips guys, i have had contact with the corps historian Cpt Derek Oakley a few years ago , and he couldnt say much but did comment on 1749 being all over europe, i have lots of memories from my late grandmother, she remembered grandfather coming home from Fort William area with a green beret, being in an embarkation camp in southampton, D,Day going over on landing craft, belsen liberation, being COs driver in holland and the 2 officers stood up in the back of the jeep being be headed by a wire across the road, she also told me that he met mount batten when he visited his camp one time.
My uncle is a military researcher and he hit a wall a few years ago due to the official secrets act still being in force, one thing i was also told was he was on Pathe news escorting german prisoners , i have started looking and their is some footage on their of 30au in the bremen area , the link is on the 30 au site.
Ill keep on trying and post any findings :)

Many thanks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 13/01/2013 02:32:21

Craig,

Yes, I think that you should definitely search beyong 45 RM Cdo, because although they were in 1 Commando Brigade, so too, for a while, were 46 RM Cdo...
However, you mention Nuremberg - presumably in reference to the Trials - but I believe that both 45 & 46 RM Cdos had returned to the UK by the time the Trials started.

That may suggest that your grandfather was in one of the smaller groups such as 30AU.

Any info you can turn up, no matter how insignificant it may seem, may just trigger something with someone and lead to more info...

Any photos of your grandfather in uniform other than the one in your avatar?

Nick

This is the link to the Pathe News Clip to which Craig refered.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/germany-civilians/query/199409

Nick

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 13/01/2013 13:15:11

As regards 30AU there was an Army element and a Royal Marine element. According to the Royal Marines Museum entry for 30AU

During the next ten months these Troops operated close to or ahead of the Allied advanced positions, and by March 1945 'A' Troop was moving towards Leipzig (in eastern Germany), 'B' Troop towards Hamburg and 'X' Troop to Keil, areas they all reached as German resistance crumbled. In April teams were finding minefield charts, ciphers, data on naval technical developments and other intelligence in German HQs. The Unit's HQ had moved close behind the Allied line of advance and was in Minden by May. In June the RM elements returned to the UK and were disbanded.

The Nuremburg trials began I believe in November.

Also Nick said

ROYAL ALBERT - was the name given to Naval Party 1749 as part of the occupying forces in Germany.

Accounts and admin. at Princess Gardens, London SW7 up to 1 April 1945 when shifted to Minden, then from Sep. 1945 at Hamburg. In Mar. 1951 to Cuxhaven.

Again from the Royal Marines Museum entry for 4 Commando Brigade:

On 22 April the last of its raids was made by units under command. In late May 1945 the Brigade moved to Minden (Germany), where it was reinforced by drafts from 1 Commando Brigade in preparation for service in the Far East, but returned to the UK and was disbanded in December 1945

So the dates tally there

Nurmeberg, yes jack was at the trials , spoke to my dad earlier ( soning law) jack spoke to him about his service more than anyone else,dad said he mentioned seeing one of the top generals ( possibly Goering) die right in front of him from a suicide pill, also remembers him saying about lots of recce behind the enemy lines , and on one occasion he went temporarily blind from a bottle of liberated wine he rescued during a raid, said it had been spiked . Jack didnt come home to the UK until sometime in 46 and went back to the Portsmouth Division where he demobbed .

30 AU will be my main concentration of research.

Wait out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 13/01/2013 20:11:47

The point about 30AU that I was making was that the Royal Marines section of 30AU had returned to the UK before Nuremberg. The dates tally with 4 Commando Bde. But I am sure with other units as well

Goering killed himself in October 46

i know the marines transfered around in theatre, i read a book called ,they died with their boots clean and the author who was in 48 R.M.Cmdo was transferred to a non green beret marine unit at the end of the war and then to a army cmdo after that, the fog of war people could be moving in various locations as ATTS and Detts.

I will ask about the general killing himself i thought it was goering but will speak to dad . dont have any other photos of jack in the war, i have a photo of him as a C/SGT in the royal marine cadets in 1973 in lovetts but wearing his peaked cap, also have a photo of his bar in the compound where he lived in saudi arabia, in which he was wearing a Green Beret , the bar was dedicated to his service life.

I did have some commando flashes , but they were misplaced during a house move a long time ago, thanks for the comments i will check to see when he came home from germany.

Stay low move fast.

Discharged in 12 june 1946.

Looking at the stills there are definitely Royal Marines on this clip which, according to the 30 AU website, is the capture of Admiral Dönitz.

To me it looks as if there are also RMs in the RN Vehicle (marked 30)

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/germany-civilians

Nick

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 13/01/2013 21:56:09

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/germany-civilians

Yes there are definitely RM in this clip eg at 1:29 on above video. Around 8 seconds, you see what looks like a Royal Marine in the truck marked 48154 RN 30, but with a US M1 carbine. He also seems to have headphones around his neck.

At 2:43 you see a group of scruffy looking Allied soldiers with Sten guns, mostly in British battle dress, and berets, but seemingly no badges or markings.
Wonder who they are ?

Craig is looking here, including images of original documents. http://30au.co.uk/Documents.html

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 13/01/2013 21:55:22

As Craig and Nic wrote, a version of the same clip is at http://30au.co.uk/Pathe-Clip.html but with caption

A-troop men of 30 Assault Unit Capturing Nazi Officers. Then putting on show for the News team.