Starting my search - Frank Williams, Royal Welch Fusiliers and Marine Commando during WW2

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/11/2012 21:44:05

I am only just starting out my search for info about where my Grandfather was during WW2 but here seemed the best place. Am about to tackle trying to apply for his service record or whatever it is called.

The information I have is that he was in the Royal Welch Fusiliers and then a commando. At some point in my mother's childhood there was a documentary on television about Norway commando raids and he left the house, all he said when he came back was that he had been there and he never mentioned it again. We don't know which raid it was though. His troop (is that the correct name?) missed being sent on some of their missions due to pneumonia and flu I think it was.

He was a 6ft red headed Welshman who didn't have a Welsh accent and sadly was killed in the 1970s whilst working abroad so I have never been able to find out any more information. We don't appear to have any photos other than his standard uniform one. He mentioned 1 friend Jack Wills from the Cigarette family.

I have thought about looking into this for a few years now since I started collecting for the Poppy Appeal. I feel I ought to know what role my family members played in the war. It is important to me my children grow up knowing their family history.

Any advice anyone can offer would be very gratefully received.
thanks

hmm so if he was in the Royal Welch Fusiliers AND was a Commando does that mean I have to apply for army records and marine records or was he still army?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/11/2012 15:25:45

Hello Anniek

Welcome to our forums

You have got a good deal to go on and getting his service record would be a great idea.

The ARMY commandos were the original commando units and it sounds like he was in the army Commando and not the RM Commandos which were formed later in the war.

Having said that he may have served in the RM Commandos as this is not unheard of either.

Certainly the raids on Norway that you mention were probably Army Commandos so his service record is the next step.

Regards

John M

Thank you John, I will get started with the army ones then, or print the forms etc for my mum to do as his next of kin anyway.

thanks

Hi Anniek

My father's parent regiment was also the RWF and he was one of the original members of No1 Army Commando. I know that many of the original members of No1 Commando were from Welsh Regiments Like RWF and South Wales Borderers, so much so that I think that No1 was often called the "Welsh Commando".
I am actually due to visit one of the veterans of No1 tomorrow, Idris Jones who was also from the RWF, so I will ask him if he remembers any one of your GF's name or discription.

Cheers Andy

Hi Anniek
I agree with Andy.

Andy
Please give my best wishes to Idris and his wife, and try to push him for a copy of his written account of service in No1 written in Welsh, (now with his daughter, It would be a great loss If it were to go missing), off to the US on tuesday might go to Llanbedrog on my return.
Cheers
Kevin

Andy that would be great thank you.

Have had a quick text chat with my mum and the following bits of info have come to light as she remembers stuff.

He did have a Welsh accent then, he was a welsh speaker but forced to use some English at school I think, Originally from Brymbo but then living in Llay Main (hope I have spelt that right). Raised by elderly aunt and uncle, no parents. Had been a miner but then worked in Chester He was 6ft 1, red hair and a very good boxer in the army, was asked to turn professional after the war, I think he won quite a few matches (is that what they are called in Boxing?) in the army. Liked cards, particularly good at poker. Already had poaching skills. He mentioned doing his training in Scotland, caught a sheep I believe. Something about going to Benbecula in the Scottish Islands.
It was India he missed due to pneumonia outbreak my mum thinks. He was a Sergeant but fell asleep on duty and was court marshalled and demoted but then diagnosed with pneumonia which would make sense as he was very conscientious normally. Was invalided out of the Commandos at some point due to a foot problem. I think he was quite a normal, gentle, quietly spoken chap.

I feel quite pleased with what I have learned today, thank you.

I just hope I am well enough tomorrow to do my poppy stint. (have had flu all week, felt more human today hence getting on the computer but I still feel pretty rubbish)

Hi Anniek

You mentioned that he missed going to India, which is potentially significant as No1 Commando were sent to India 1n 1943 as part of 3 Commando Brigade, which also consisted of No5 Army Commando and Nos 44 and 48 Royal Marine Commando.
Have you checked out the No1 photo gallery yet, you never know if he was in this commando he may be in one of these photos, especially the large panoramic photo of the whole of No1 taken in Winchester shortly before their posting overseas to Burma / India (see link)

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/1/panorama/Numbered+No1+Panorama_.jpg.html

It is well worth applying for a copy of your GF's service records, in reply to my application I received some copies of original documents, especially Army Form B200b that listed every unit that he served in (see link)
.
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/1/Hugh+Maines/Z400.jpg.html

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/11/2012 21:41:16

thanks Andy

I will have a look through the photos then. I did have a quick scan earlier but I had no idea at all which ones might be relevant so didn't get very far.
Mum said she thought about half of his group went to India and the other half were too ill to go - they had all had their jabs etc so it must have been relatively close to departure time.

It does really make me wish everything had been written down by people. my other grandfather was a minesweeper and never left British waters because he was too valuable for training people (another ex-miner) but we never found out any more than that about what he actually did. These guys don't realise what an important role they played in the world. My Father in Law helped liberate Belsen apparently (but had relatives in it as his Grandparents were Bavarian Jews who had moved to Liverpool). It is so important to me that I can tell my children when they are a bit older what their ancestors did and what people gave up for us to have our lives as we do. They are apparently 4th cousins once removed from Anne Frank so they need to know the stories and history. Thats why I collect for the Poppy Appeal. Someone asked me last week why I wasn't sitting down and instead stood for the whole time. I explained that as I was able to stand I felt it was a sign of respect that I did so. This man said 'well I would just sit down if it was me'. I had to stop myself pointing out that if these men had had that attitude then things would have been very different.

Anniek
Could he be here:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/1/1+cdo+grp/Copy+of+Stage+10-numbered+copy.jpg.html

hmm this photo identification is hard! I have just gone and retrieved his uniformed picture from the dining room wall so I can see what he looked like at that age, that might assist me more as noone is jumping out at me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/11/2012 00:32:30

Hello again Anniek

As Andy says No 1 or No 5 Commando seems to be a good bet here as they were in India/Burma but I think nothing could be better than getting his service records. They have a good chance of unlocking the mystery for you.

Once you know his unit your research can really start.

Regards

john M

thanks John, yes we will definitely do that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/11/2012 12:36:41

Hi Anniek,

As others have said getting the service records from the MOD are the key.

I can't add much, but two things chimed with me:

John M wrote

Having said that he may have served in the RM Commandos as this is not unheard of either

My granddad was a Marine, then RM Commando, wounded in hand, then Army Commando, and I've seen others who were Marines then Army Commandos.
I guess you should apply to the Marines and Army just to be sure.

Anniek wrote

Was invalided out of the Commandos at some point due to a foot problem.

My granddad had flat feet and he claimed that was the reason he went from the Royal Marines, but then somehow was considered fit enough to move to Army Commandos including No. 5

You can see his records here
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3563.page
http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3577.page

Good luck

thanks Mark - handy to get an idea of what the records look like. I am finding this whole thing fascinating and it is certainly making having flu a bit less dull!

at least I know he was old enough to sign up when he did. he was born in 1919 so I don't have to worry about dates of birth or anything being wrong.

My Grandfather claimed he had too many bones in his feet or something, not sure my mum ever truly believed that reason but who knows. I suppose feet would have taken a real battering during the war, especially for commandos so problems showed up that in day to day life would never have been a problem.