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Westminster Abbey Commando ROH Errors and Omissions  XML
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Colin Russell
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With all the excellent work that has been done on this forum with our own Roll of Honour and during my research and, thanks to Nick passing on the Westminster Abbey Commando ROH which I used for cross referencing, I began to notice names missing and details incorrect on Commandos named on the Westminster Abbey ROH.

Below is the email I sent to Christine Reynolds at Westminster Abbey and her kind reply after I spoke to her on the phone.
Dear Christine,

I am a member of The Commando Veteran Assoc., researching Commandos who fell during WW2.

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission have records of the Commandos but, unfortunately, The Abbey Commando Roll of Honour has some errors and omissions that I have discovered during my research. The errors and omissions I refer to include: not listed, wrong initial for Christian name, wrong place of death, date of death and cause.

One example is of a Commando listed in The Abbey ROH as being a "casualty" and the place of his demise being where he landed on his mission.

This Commando was "executed" at Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp, Berlin. So you can see that casualty and place of death hardly matches what this soldier endured. This soldier was a victim of the infamous Kommando Order given by Adolph Hitler.

I am compiling a list of names discovered so far in my research that match all the above omission criteria I refer to. I am into double figures.

If it is possible and, with your kind help, I should like to right these oversights.

I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.

Regards,

Colin Russell



Christines reply:

Dear Colin,

The Roll of Honour was deposited at the Abbey in January 1949 by the Army Commandos Association. It had previously just been in their office in Kensington. They approached the Dean of Westminster asking if they could house it here as a more appropriate place for it. So we know nothing of how they compiled the roll or the sources they used. But I gather it was not from any MoD source.



On the inside cover of the book it says ?Presented by the officers of the Commando Depot? (which I gather from Alan Frasca of the CHS was their establishment at Achnacarry.) After p.42 there is an inscription ?The completion of this Roll of Honour was made possible through the generosity of Brigadier R.J.F. Tod, CBE, DSO? but there is no date. So he obviously paid for it to be completed. The Roll is not in alphabetical order but by the various units which is why we decided to compile our Excel file index.



We would of course be happy to note any errors or omissions on our electronic index (they also have a copy of it in the Abbey Verger?s Office so this is where any interested parties would look first to find a name). It would not be ethical to alter a current entry in the beautifully inscribed book. If there are enough blank vellum pages at the rear of the book it may be possible to have Errors and Admissions on those pages. Perhaps a small mark against the original name might be added to indicate that a correction has been made to that entry so people know to check the E&A page. But if we have indicated such on our index it might not really be necessary to do that.



As I said on the phone if written application is made to the Dean of Westminster, as guardian of the Roll, about errors/additions (once they are all known) and it has the written agreement of all the necessary Commando authorities/veteran associations who might have an interest in the Roll he would then be able to consider it.



An illuminator would have to be paid to do the work by those requesting it. If there are not enough blank pages in the Roll to accommodate all the extras a supplemental roll would have to be made. The current book has a fine leather binding and you cannot add any more pages to this. The Roll could be transferred to the Abbey Library for the illuminator to do the work so it doesn?t go off site or it could go to the illuminator?s studio if the people paying for the work prefer that (I suppose that might be cheaper I don?t know).



So once your research has been completed we would be glad to receive all the corrections and additions for our Excel file index.



Best wishes

Yours sincerely,

Christine Reynolds (Miss)

Assistant Keeper of Muniments

The Library

Westminster Abbey, London SW1P 3PA



Library phone: 020 7654 4830

Direct fax: 020 7654 4827

www.westminster-abbey.org



So far I have discovered nearly 60 names missing from the Westminster Abbey ROH as well as errors on those listed.

Do we, as a Commando Veterans Association, accept the responsibilty of attempting to update this Roll of Honour that is housed in such a prestigious place of worship that befits the memory of the Commando ethic, resolve, courage and dignity that their memory so richly deserves :?:

I'm up for it Anyone else :?:

Regarding "Commando ownership", I've been in contact with Imperial War Museum who have referred me to Royal Marine Museum, no reply on the phone at their archives section but I'll persist.

Another historical reference we use is the CWGC....I've discovered their database on searches does appear to return "no match" under casualty but I can find the Commando I am looking for when I search the cemetery details. Which means you have to know the cemetery before you do your search
I've contacted CWGC and am awaiting their response.

Cheers,

Colin

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 19/02/2008 13:31:21


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Colin Russell wrote:


So far I have discovered nearly 60 names missing from the Westminster Abbey ROH as well as errors on those listed.

Do we, as a Commando Veterans Association, accept the responsibilty of attempting to update this Roll of Honour that is housed in such a prestigious place of worship that befits the memory of the Commando ethic, resolve, courage and dignity that their memory so richly deserves :?:

I'm up for it Anyone else :?:




Well, I can vouch that Colin has been very busy over the last few days and is obviously very determined about this.

I certainly think that the computer document should be corrected as Miss Reynolds suggests and am willing to lend a hand in any way I can.

With regards to the illuminated Roll of Honour, perhaps that is a matter for the President and Officers of the CVA to deliberate over.


Nick Collins,

Commando Association Historical Archivist & Photographer.

Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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geoffmurray1
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Thanks Nick and Colin. This is something that has been deliberated over by Commandos for many years, along with many other very important topics, long before the CVA and the creation of this website. It is something that we are aware that needs to be addressed, we are fully aware of some errors and possible ommissions and we are fully aware of the options that we have. What we have to remember about the RoH is that names were intentionally omitted due to varying reasons: some soldiers, although attached to the Commandos (and recorded as serving with Commandos), may not have been Commandos i.e some signallers, medics, clerks etc. Some Commandos were detached to other units or even 'splinter groups' (SI/SF/SOE etc) and were not deemed to have been killed during Commando service. Some Commandos were even omitted on request of their families etc, etc. I am certain that Henry Brown, the then Secretary of the Commando Association, and Colonel Tod, along with their advisors did an excellent job. Unfortunately there are a few errors and possibly a few ommissions, however we really do not think that it is as bad as some think. Ammending the RoH would not be as simple as changing an electronic document and adding names to the back pages. To the wartime Commandos it is a very sensitive subject and one that is on the table of the CVA Committee.

Regards
G



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/02/2008 09:54:29


Geoff Murray


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Geoff,
Thanks for the explanation - I thought you'd probably have it covered.
Naturally my offer to help still stands, whatever or whenever...


Nick

Nick Collins,

Commando Association Historical Archivist & Photographer.

Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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geoffmurray1
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Further to my last comment, I feel that there will most definitely be more people who will visit our website than will visit Westminster Abbey (esp those that can't travel, live abroad etc) in search of Commando history. I think it would be more pertinant and also more beneficial for those interested in researching the Commandos, to work on getting our website Rolls of Honour and Also Served Lists complete rather than attempting to change what is done. We are working on the Rolls of Honour, and many thanks to those that spend many a dedicated hour (some days and weeks - Bob) to complete these lists. We are also concurrently working on the 'Also Served Lists' which eventually will be available on this site. These lists will inevitably be open ended as the passing of time will make it nigh on impossible to accurately reflect all those who served. However it will be more than we have ever had and will be an excellent source for families researching their loved ones, even if just to see a name on a list. Eventually (over the next few years) it is my aspiration to get as many of these names onto memorial pavers within our Commando Memorial at Alrewas.
Any members who feel they may have names to add are to contact the Sec by PM where names can be added to our master drafts. Master drafts will be scrutinised and compared with sources such as Unit nominals and Commando Association archived lists prior to being published.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/02/2008 17:17:12


Geoff Murray


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