Staff Sergeant Briat Commando Signals Section

Good evening,

I have the attached map case which has the ww2 commando signals sign on it and inside the name S. Sgt Briat, Signals section and number 6021FN41.

Does anyone have info on S. Sgt Briat and any idea from which era this map case could be?

Cheers
JB

Nice one JB

I was too busy tiling the bathroom on Saturday that I forgot to put a bid on that!! Looks a great piece, I hope someone can link its provenance

cheers
Paul

Hello

I think this is PAUL BRIAT free french commando.

sincerely

stéphane

I will looking for about his army number, but I think it's him.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 26/11/2011 01:27:26

Except the service number I have listed for Paul Briat is: 5201 FN 40

I will cross refer.
Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 25/11/2011 22:48:48

Hi Nick, thanks, the map case clearly refers to 6201FN41. so also 41 at the end and not 40. The odds that it is Paul Briat are quite high I would say as he he was in the commando signals group. The map case is a pattern I have not come accross earlier it does not look typically British? I know that the army commandos sometimes also were equipped with US equipment.

Thanks all for the great info!

Cheers

JB

Agree it's not a standard British pattern. I can't get to my US kit books at the moment as my house is upside down. I'll try ands dig them out.

It just looks right though to me!

Another source suggests that Sgt Paul Briat's number was 5201 FN 41.

You will also note that Briat was issued with cap badge No3, all the cap badges were given individual serial numbers (Kieffer had No1) and some commandos had to be issued another badges - it seems that the badges were popular with the ladies...

nick

Very interesting document you have there Nick! I heard once Kieffer also had a replacement himself so he also liked the ladies

Can you also retrace an issue of a second badge to Kieffer?

Cheers

JB

JB,
Yes, Commandant Kieffer's second badge was 354

Because these badges were individually numbered they were much sought after and the French Commandos presented quite a few as gifts, listed below are some examples:

345 - Laycock
348 - Durnford Slater
350 - Lord Lovat
351 - Mills- Roberts
290 & 366 - Col Vaughan
392 - Capt Gilchrist
395 - Col Dawson

With regards the Service Numbers of the French Commandos, it would seem, to me, that the 'FN' in some of their numbers may stand for 'Forces Navales' [Naval Forces] as the FN only seems to be part of the original volunteers' numbers.
[Phillipe Kieffer was himself a Lieutenant in the French Navy when he formed the 'Fusiliers-Marins Commandos' which later went on to become '1er Bataillon de Fusiliers Marins Commandos'.]
Other Free French Forces joined the Commandos - obviously these guys joined the Commandos later and this is reflected by their cap badge serial number - and their Service Numbers follow a different pattern and may have different letters rather than FN.

The last two digits, I would guess, being the year the individual joined the (French) Armed Forces.

Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this assumption.

Nick

Thanks Nick, fascinating stuff, I did not know this record existed. I understand that JR Guant has produced only one batch of 400 badges numbered 1-400 while there were only 177 members in Kieffers outfit. Does you record indicate if all 400 were issued, replaced or gifted?

As to the service number you line of reasoning does make sense. Now we are also one digit close to Paul Briats service number the only difference the 5 and the 6.

Cheers,

JB

JB,

Yes according to my source there were 400 made and the last 4 went to Admiral d'Argenlieu, C-in-C Free French Naval Forces.

With regards the satchel - it seems strange that both my separate sources have Briat's number starting with a 5 yet the number on the bag starts with a 6.
Briat wouldn't have got his own number wrong...
But why should two other sites get it wrong?

My only thought is that it is not genuine and the person who wrote Briat's number on it mistook the 5 for a 6.

Who knows? Let's see if Stephane can confirm the number either way.

Nick

Hello

I confirm Nick's source.
I read too, about Paul BRIAT, number 520 FN 40
But for me the real number is : 5201 FN 41

About Cdt KIEFFER badges : he's got number : 1 - 341 - 354

The 354 remplace number 1. I think the 341 has been given to him for someone else.

I met Paul BRIAT during ceremonies few years ago. I hope to find the photos about him.

stéphane

Hi Stephane, is Paul Briat still alive? Remains a mystery why on the map case the service number starts with a 6, is there another FF cdo with this number? Cheers JB

Hello

Paul BRIAT died the 27th of june 2003.

I haven't find someone with the number 6201, but will do some research.

sincerely

stéphane