WS/ Rank Prefix

Can anyone tell me what the WS/ prefix infont of a WW2 Army Commandos rank signifies?

Thank you,

Steve.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 28/11/2007 17:41:32

unknowncommandos wrote:Can anyone tell me what the WS/ prefix infont of a WW2 Army Commandos rank signifies?

Thank you,

Steve.

Steve,
welcome to the CVA forum and thanks for all the info you've posted thus far.

W/S stands for War Substantive.
regards,
Nick

Fascinating! Many thanks for your reply. I have seen this prefix used many times on documents relating to Army Commando's particulary NCO's.

WS/CPL.
WS/SGT.

Often the 'WS' has been inked in by hand around the typed script.

Ive dropped Stephen an introduction in his 'private messages' to let him know what I`m all about. I hope no one minds me making these posts despite the fact I have no connection with the Green Berets.

Steve.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 29/11/2007 00:26:34

further to my earlier reply, here is an example taken from my father's Service & Casualty records:

P/A/Rank of Cpl
U/L/Sgt *
W/S Rank of Cpl
P/L/Sgt *
U/A/Sgt **
P/A/Sgt **
W/S Sgt

By and large the records are easy to understand; however, they can be a little confusing at times - for instance they show him reaching Unpaid Lance Sergeant [U/L/Sgt] on the same date as Paid Lance Sergeant [P/L/Sgt] and, likewise Unpaid Acting Sergeant [U/A/Sgt] and Paid Acting Sergeant [P/A/Sgt] on the same date...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 29/11/2007 10:41:18

I can answer at least part of your question.

An Acting Sergeant can either be a Private or a Corporal. Upon being captured or killed the appointment is lost. Ive also noted on papers that men have lost their appointment through being admitted to hospital. One can also make a request to lose the appointment.

A Lance Sergeant is a Corporal. This is a floating appointment. A lance Sergeant is on probation for a set period, if a he can cut the mustard as a Sergeant that man is made up to a Sergeant.

A Lance Corporal is not a rank at all, its an appointment. If one is killed or captured that appointment is lost.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 11/04/2010 16:15:52

Steve,

Cheers for that - although, having spent 27 years in the RAF and a lot of that in close association with the Army [albeit not during WWII :wink: ] - I do know the vagaries of the Arny's rank system...

My confusion is where he is listed as being both the Unpaid and Paid rank/appointment on the same day.

Cheers,
Nick

I know a man who has written a book on the subject of Army Ranks if he doesnt know then no one does. Will post back later.

Steve.

The sytem never changes:

The reason for this apparent consfusion in promotion to differing ranks on the same date is becuase he went from one rank to another so on the day of promotion any ranks applicable in between the two, including unpaid would be entered into the service record to show continuity.

I had a very similar entry on my service docs in 1981

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 29/11/2007 18:08:41

Here's a bit of google research to try and explain the NCO ranks...

The chevrons worn by sergeants and corporals date back to 1802. As today, sergeants wore three chevrons, point downwards, on the upper arm, and corporals wore two, with sergeant-majors and quarter-master-sergeants then having four. A few years later, lance-corporals were allowed one chevron, and later in the century the lance-sergeant appeared, also wearing three chevrons.

The grades of lance-sergeant and lance-corporal were not strictly ranks, but were appointments, held by selected corporals and privates, and usually carrying extra pay. The appointment was made by the man's commanding officer and could be taken away by him for disciplinary reasons, unlike full sergeants and corporals who could only be demoted by order of a court martial. It is only since 1961 that lance-corporal has been a separate rank in its own right.

Generally the appointment of lance-sergeant was discontinued in 1946, except in the Foot Guards who have a unique rank structure.
Where the rest of the Army have Lance-Corporals who wear one chevron and Corporals who wear two chevrons, the Guards have Lance-Corporals who wear two chevrons and the rank of Lance-Sergeant who is a full Corporal but who wears three chevrons and is senior by appointment to a normal Corporal.
This rank structure was appointed by Queen Victoria who stated that her Guards would not wear only one chevron when mounting guard outside the Royal Palaces so she stated that the Lance-Corporal would wear two chevrons. That left the problem of what the full Corporal would wear to show that he was a full Corporal so the rank of Lance-Sergeant was appointed. Even though the Lance-Sergeant is only a full Corporal to the eyes of outside Regiments and Corps, he still had full Sergeants' Mess privileges.
Of course the Household Cavalry are different again - they don't mention Sergeants at all - but we'll leave that for another day.....

Stephen Unwin wrote:The sytem never changes:

The reason for this apparent consfusion in promotion to differing ranks on the same date is becuase he went from one rank to another so on the day of promotion any ranks applicable in between the two, including unpaid would be entered into the service record to show continuity.

I had a very similar entry on my service docs in 1981

...and of course the 'overlap' would make sense BUT for those three little letters "wef" which stand for 'with effect from'...

Nick

I assume we are looking at an Army Commandos record. 1946 wasnt that when the majority of Army Commando units were disbanded?

Is there any chance that a position for a Paid Acting Sergeant was created on the same day that your relative was promoted to Unpaid Acting Sergeant, due to the fact another NCO decided to leave the unit, admitted to hospital on the same day or another NCO didnt want a promotion?

This is a brief summary of the reply I had from the expert......

If it is not someone being pedantic as already suggested then is to do with a vacancy in the establishment.