commando veterans association commando dagger
[Recent Topics] Recent Topics   [Groups] Back to home page  [Register] Register /  [Login] Login 
Johnny Ramensky MM and 30 Assault Unit  XML
Forum Index » Looking for Information Individuals
Author Message
Pete
CVA Website Archivist
[Avatar]

Joined: 23/09/2008 00:08:02
Messages: 4654
Offline

Sam Goss is looking for any information on Johnny Ramensky MM who was a member of 30 Assault Unit. This is for inclusion in the BBC's 'The One Show'. I have detailed his email to me below so that anyone with information can contact Sam direct :

Dear Mr Rogers,
I hope you are well and don't mind me e-mailing like this. I am writing from BBC 1's the One Show where we've been commissioned to make a short film on the war time exploits of Johnny Ramensky and the 30 Assault Unit Commandos. I have also writen to John Mewett and Nick Collins. I was wondering if you might be able to put me in touch with anyone who may know anything about the role and involvement of the famous safe-breaker Johnny Ramensky while he was serving in 30CAU c.1944.

I am particularly interested in speaking to anyone familiar with the history described in Peter Haining's book The Mystery of Rommel's Gold" - which details a Commando raid on enemy embassy safes in Rome, circa 1944. In the account, Ramensky is ordered by the officer in charge to 'go upstairs into the strongrooms and open all the safes', and 'within half an hour had opened all 12'. Do you think this might be something you could help with? If it is, I would be very interested to hear from you.
All the very best,
Sam Goss
Real Life Media Productions Limited
t: +44 (0)113 203 4068
m: +44 (0)7765 866109
e: [email protected]


In my reply to him I have included detail from a previous post which has an entry by me at the foot of the page with a link to a very good newspaper article about Johnny Ramensky MM:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/1202.page


13th Feb 2012 ***************** This is an old post so no further information need be sent ******************

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 13/02/2012 23:53:11


Pete Rogers, son of LSgt Joe Rogers MM & nephew of TSM Ken McAllister. Both No2 Commando.
God and the Soldier, all men adore, In time of danger and not before.
When the danger is passed and all things righted, God is forgotten, and the Soldier slighted.


**** nb. I no longer monitor the pm facility ****
[Email]
NIC
Forum Member
[Avatar]

Joined: 10/04/2007 22:56:27
Messages: 3325
Location: Godmanchester, Cambridgeshire
Offline

Unfortunately I can't offer any more other than this:
www.peterman.org.uk wrote:
JOHN RAMENSKY 1905 ? 1972
(or Ramanauckas or Ramsay)



Probably the best known safe-blower in this country ? not so much for his safe-breaking prowess as for the many and highly publicised escapes which he made from Peterhead Prison ? five times altogether between 1934 and 1958.

His parents, who were probably of Lithuanian origin - the family name being Ramanauckas - were married in Poland. His father was a Fire Clay miner to trade and in all probability came into this country among other immigrant labourers brought in from Europe as blackleg labour to break the 10 month old strike at the Glenboig fire clay mine in 1901. John, or Yonas was born four years later at the family home also in Glenboig. He was 8 when his father died and the family moved to the Gorbals district of Glasgow. There he started to get into trouble from the age of 11, eventually finishing up in Borstal for three years. He was released in 1924 but was soon convicted of theft and sentenced to 3 months in prison.

In 1925, age 20, he pled guilty to 16 charges of housebreaking and one of assault. The crimes had been committed over a wide area in Glasgow from Hyndland and Anniesland on the one side of town to Shawlands and Crosshill on the other. He was eventually caught by a housekeeper who returned unexpectedly, and it was on this occasion that he committed the assault by compressing her throat, although the Advocate Depute at his subsequent trial in the High Court stated that ?it was not of a serious character.? His Agent at the previous Sheriff Court hearing stated in mitigation of the thefts that Ramensky had returned stolen War Savings Certificates to their owners ?through the Post Office.?

As it was his first appearance in the High Court, the Judge felt disinclined to pass a heavy sentence on such a young man and stated that he would give him one more chance despite his previous record. He was given 18 months but with the proviso that if he came back to that court he could not hope to escape a long sentence of penal servitude.

Athough for a while he tried to make an honest living as a commission agent, by 1927 he was back in prison for 3 years.

When he married Margaret McManus in October 1931 he had changed his name to John Ramsay. He gave his occupation as a coal miner. and his address as 89 Cathcart Road, Glasgow.

There was then a brief spell running a bookmaking business at the dog racing tracks until, in March 1934, with an accomplice, his brother- in- law Mario Demarco, whom he admitted later in court he had incited to join him, they blew open the safe at John Ledingham & Sons, bakers, in Mount Street Aberdeen, and were subsequently caught by a prompt police response when they were caught on the Glasgow bound train at Perth Station. A heel mark from Demarco's shoe in the soot of a fireplace, and a torn piece of a 10/- note in Ramensky?s pocket which matched the remainder of the note found on the baker?s premises ensured their conviction. Amount stolen - £246. Sentence, 5 years.The press reports of the trial now refer to him as John Ramensky.

It was during this spell in Peterhead that Ramensky made his first escape on the 4th November 1934. Although it is usually reported that this breakout was because he had been refused permission to attend his wife Margaret Ramsay's funeral, and that his sense of outrage had prompted this action, this cannot be correct as she did not die until October 1937 - three years later. His description as issued at the time was :- 30 years of age, 5 feet 5 inches in height, light brown hair, blue eyes, fresh complexion, flat nose, and in prison garb. He was caught the following day at 10.35, having been free for 28 hours, and having travelled 22 miles. He was wet and bedraggled and without cap, jacket, or boots! His only food had been turnip from a field. He was taken to the hospital in Craiginches Prison in Aberdeen for treatment to his feet.

Despite having broken out of prison, his term must have been reduced, for less then 4 years later on the 9th or 10th of July 1938 he blew open the safe in the Empress Laundry, Seaforth Road, Aberdeen, and from which he stole £180:2:11., plus £105:14s from a second safe that he was about to blow when he discovered the key for it in the first safe. Once again forensic evidence convicted him. It was a landmark case for the scientist in that having obtained traces of sawdust (component of the fire-resisting filling of safes) from the turn-ups of his trousers, they matched it exactly with samples taken from the safe. While this might not always be 100% accurate in other cases as different safes might contain similar sawdust, in this case there was an unusual fungal infection in the wood that limited it to this one safe. To illustrate how prolific a cracksman he was, notes taken at the time suggest that there could well be traces of ballast or proofing on his clothing from other safes as well, since he was believed to have been involved in safe-blowings in Manchester, Clydebank, and various other places since his release from prison 2 months previously. Of course this was not the only evidence on which he was convicted. As in the previous case a small scrap of paper found on Ramensky matched the other part of an envelope on the premises. This scrap had been used as a page marker in a Murray?s A.B.C. railway timetable for the service on which he was arrested making his return to Glasgow. At this time he had been living with his sister in Rutherglen but was soon to be a guest of His Majesty again for 5 years penal servitude*.

The above letter - with acknowledgement to the National Archives of Scotland - was written from prison shortly after the above incident to warn the authorities of the undetonated charge within the second safe.

*
NOTE: Penal servitude was hard labour under different conditions from ordinary imprisonment. It had been substituted for deportation in 1853, and abolished in 1948. At Peterhead Prison the hard labour involved breaking and transporting granite at the Stirling Hill Quarry.

It was said in the newspapers of the time that that good-conduct marks would earn him privileges. From a cell with dark windows he could move to a cell with clear windows through which he could see the exercise yard, and then, to the highest honour ? a cell overlooking the sea. This does not sit well with the following excerpt from the Scotsman in December 1934.
SHACKLES IN PETERHEAD PRISON

Mr McGovern (I.L.P., Shettleston) asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if his attention had been drawn to the form of punishment being meted out to John Ramensky at Peterhead Prison for jail-breaking, where shackles where shackles were placed on his legs whilst undergoing solitary confinement, and if he was prepared to put an end to this practice. It was agreed in Dec.1934 that this method of restraint should not in future be used in any Scottish prison.

On the 2nd of September 1939, the day before war was declared, Ramensky petitioned to serve in the army following the outbreak of war, and on the 14th of December in 1941, again petitioned to have his licence reviewed in order that he could serve his country. Both were rejected.

In August 1942 another petition but this time so that he could alter his name to John Ramsay to enable him to make a fresh start when he joins the army on release. The records show that he was discharged from Peterhead Prison on the 8th of October 1942 with a new Identity Card issued in the name John Ramsay.

When he enlisted into the Royal Fusiliers in January 1943 it is unclear under which name he registered. It is known that he was employed as an instructor in methods of burglary and safe-blowing at the training school for the SOE at Beaulieu (despite his heavy Glasgow accent making him almost unintelligible). He subsequently attended the commando training establishment at Achnacarry but it is uncertain whether it was in the capacity of instructor or as a commando trainee. Records ahow that in 1944 he was a member of 30 Commando (AU) Section 43 (army).There are many and various unsubstantiated stories of him having been parachuted behind enemy lines to ?blow up infrastructure and steal important documents' including having blown open 14 embassy safes in Rome in one day during the occupation. Underlying the latter story will be a thread of truth as the main function of 30 Commando was the acquisition of intelligence ahead of advancing forces. After the Italian campaign it appears that he transferred to No.6 Commando around April 1945. It has been variously stated that he was awarded the Military Medal and given a free pardon, but as his sentence had been fulfilled by 1942, this latter claim at least is inaccurate. The London Gazette carries no report of his award or citation and it has been suggested that he may even have declined the award. Whether or not this fact would have been recorded in the Gazette is not known.

The Ramensky legend is carried in countless websites and newspaper features. The great historian Alan Taylor made the point that 'History does not repeat itself, historians repeat each other' as in this case where a researcher has published a version of events which is not quite correct, and that version has then been copied by other resarchers as being their own work and so the myths are perpetuated. *


It is known that he returned to his unlawful activities shortly after military service as he was given a 7 year sentence ? reduced to 5 on account of his war record ? at a York Assizes in 1947. In 1948 he made a request to have the 'Noon Record' sent to him in order that he could maintain a working knowledge as a bookmaker. His conduct must have been exemplary as he was released after 3 years and 4 months. Then, running true to form, he received another jail term of 5 years during which time he made his second escape from Peterhead in 1952.

Released in 1955 and now 50 years old, he married for the second time to Lily (or Lisa) Mulholland. It was around this time that John must have decided to let it be known that he wished to be known by the name Ramsay although as far back as 1925 he had requested transfer from the Edinburgh prison to Glasgow as he claimed ill-treatment from other prisoners because of his foreign name




On this occasion he was free for 46 hours and was recaptured at Balmedie, the same place where he had been caught 18 years previously.
.

Ten months later he was caught hiding on the roof of the Croftfoot Garage where he had just blown open the safe. He was unfortunate enough to finish up in the High Court again but this time before the notorious Lord Carmont, who in handing down a cruel sentence of 10 years said that the public must be protected and added ? you have shown that you are a menace to society. Any sentence of less than ten years would be useless?. John had made an impassioned but pathetic plea. ?I have had more than my share of suffering?. ?I am pleading not only for a chance, but for the happiness of a home and a good woman?s love. Give me a chance as only good can result from it?. All to no avail.



Three years into his term, in 1958, Ramensky or Ramsay escaped on three occasions. The first in January for 24 hours, then in October for 40 hours, and his last escape in December for 10 hours.

Eventually released in 1964 he again wasted no time and this time broke into Woolworth?s High Street store in Paisley. Being an American company, the safes, although of British origin, were fitted with keyless combination locks. For some unknown reason he did not follow best practice where no keyhole is present. Normally on safes of a medium quality such as these, the dials could have been sheared off with a chisel and the spindles punched through to create access for the charges. (Note: explosive proof safes have punch-resistant spindles). What Johnny did however was to place two charges of gelignite on the outside of the doors. The resultant explosion of the unconfined charges took out every window of the first floor offices and was even heard in the local police station. Needless to say the safes firmly remained shut. And Ramsay too ? having admitted the crime - shut away for two years.

Once again his 'legend', to which the famous lawyer Joseph Beltrami referred as being 'often trotted out in pleas of mitigation', was again mentioned when his defence lawyer read out the following statement in court. "He has asked me not to refer to his wartime exploits, but after the war he had difficulty like thousands of others re-establishing himself - broken promises - suspicion and false adulation were the elements of this man's experience". A statement from Ramsay himself was also read out in court. "I worked for months with a pick and shovel and tried desperately for other work. Promises of help made to me while I was in prison by business men and others were never fulfilled."

It has been said in his defence in the past that he did on one occasion telephone the police to warn them that he had left an unexploded charge in a safe. In Woolworths however the danger lay in the way in which the unused explosives were being collected as evidence. One of the officers decided to pack the gelignite along with the detonators ? with loose wires exposed- and torch batteries ? terminals exposed ? into Ramsay?s small holdall. A brief moment of panic before the contents were carefully disentangled. (In 1936, two police officers had had their hands, faces and chests badly injured when an identical incident happened at the scene of a safe-blowing in Bridgeton, Glasgow.)

In 1967, Ramsay, now 62 years old, had his second last fling. On the 3rd of January he blew the night deposit safe of the National Commercial - now the Royal Bank of Scotland - at 82 Main Street in Rutherglen. Being just inside the Bank window the noise was terrific and Johnny had to make a run for it with whatever he could grab. Unfortunately it was nearly all in half-crowns which meant that he was so heavily handicapped that he had no chance of outrunning the police. He was charged with assaulting Constable Neil Williams by punching him in the face while resisting arrest in the nearby Greenhill Recreation Ground. He was however aquitted on this charge as he had acted party in self-defence. He pleaded guilty to the crime of safeblowing for which he received a sentence of 4 years.

The last one was in 1970 when he tackled the strongroom of the Stirling Burgh Factors office. His luck ran out ? not unusual ? and he sustained a very bad fall from the building. After 14 weeks of recuperation he started a sentence of two years.

He was apparently caught sometime later on a shop roof in Ayr and for which he got 12 months.


John Ramsay collapsed in Perth Prison in 1972 and died shortly afterwards in hospital. Very strangely the Death Certificate makes no reference to the name Ramensky, only John (formerly Yonas) Ramsay (formerly Ramanauckas)

Where the name came from and when is anybody's guess. Sometime before the age of twenty, perhaps at Borstal, someone may have found the name of Ramanauckas either too big a mouthful or too difficult to spell. All that can be said for sure is that in the Court proceedings in 1925 he bears the name Ramensky,and that will forever be the name by which he is remembered.



Footnote:

In October 1939, John Ramsay or Ramensky had submitted a petition to be given permission
to write his life story.

In December 1954, while in prison in Edinburgh, he wrote to the Governor indicating that on
liberation, he wished to remove notebooks containing his life story, as written in prison, with
the intention of publication. The Secretary of State however only agreed to the release of
notebooks concerning the prisoner's war experiences alone.

After discharge in January 1955, Ramsay again wrote concerning the fate of his notebooks
and requesting the return of his property. He received departmental confirmation that all
notebooks not given to prisoners on their discharge are destroyed three months after discharge.



* Technical postscript.

Part of the legend refers to the opening of a number of enemy embassy safes in Rome, which fits with the mission pattern of No.30 Commando. In fact an event is described in some detail in the well researched book by Peter Haines called "The Mystery of Rommel's Gold" where Ramensky is ordered by the officer in charge to 'go upstairs into the strongrooms and open all the safes', and 'within half an hour had opened all 12'.

From this text it appears that the 'strongrooms', which being at upper floor levels would be 'bookrooms,' are already open with 12 'safes' within them. Floor-loading limitations would preclude the installation of this number of 'safes' on upper floors and normal practice in bookrooms is to fit them out with security cupboards within the storage racking. This now begins to make sense as it would be quite possible to open 12 such security enclosures within the time stated as compared with 12 conventional 'safes'. It then goes on to say that the team - Commando and partisans - 'withdrew as silently as they had come'. This suggests that the 12 units were not opened by explosives. The book goes on to tell of Ramensky blowing many other safes as the allies progressed into Northern Italy.

Some versions of the legend state that in addition to embassy safes, Ramensky also blew open the safes of Field Marshall Rommel, Herman Goering, Joseph Goebbles, and the above book mentions that of Adolph Hitler.

None of these claims have ever been verified but are at the highest end of improbability purely on points of technicality. Embassy safes, and those of military importance, would have been of the highest security grade in their country of origin and fitted with at least one keyless combination as genaral practice. In the case of embassies the use of the combination lock would have been to enable a secure changeover of the senior diplomat in charge, the keylock being used for daytime use by staff without the time-comsuming procedure of having to dial up the combination lock, the primary use of which is for overnight protection . The writer had experience of this in 1948 when called to what had been the German Consulate's offices in Glasgow. The Consul's safe was a Bode-Panzer fitted with two combination dials. The locking system was known as Lafette whereby one of the lock dials was a dummy, controlled by the other true lock, concealing a pull-out stem behind the dial with a breech device at the inner end into which a small key bit was inserted and returned into the lock mechanism to operate as would a normal key by turning the dial. This system therefore had the same effect as having a keyhole shutter operated by a combination lock which was the British method of preventing an explosive charge from being placed through the keyway into the lock.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 04/05/2011 20:19:52


Nick Collins,

Commando Association Historical Archivist & Photographer.

Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


[Email]
 
Forum Index » Looking for Information Individuals
Go to:   
©Commando Veterans Archive 2006 - 2016. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, all content on this site is licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0. Powered by JForum 2.1.8 © JForum Team
commando dagger