46 Commando RM.

Does anyone have any information with ragard to 46 Cmdo RM shoulder titles. I have just found this...

The woven RM Commando shoulder title has always been 'Royal Marines Commando', because originally the title 'Commando' was an additional straight Cash's tape, sewn immediately below the existing straight shoulder title 'Royal Marines', whilst above was a matching woven unit numeral. When a complete curved woven title was later produced it was natural that it should read 'Royal Marines Commando'. The exception to this was 46 Commando, who had their own curved title, '46 Royal Marine Commando', manufactured complete with numeral.

Maj A Donald RM

Any info would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Steve. :)

Hi,
Below is a photo of some ?46 Royal Marine Commando? shoulder titles.

These are of wartime manufacture but I have yet to see a photo of them being worn.

The only type that appear in photos are the ?Cash?s Tape? type.

Regards

Danny

Hi Danny,
As your collection shows there are many variants - no wonder i am confused!! Obviously the cash's tapes are early, it would be great to know when the other types came into use. The quest continues.... )
Many thanks,
Steve.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 14/04/2011 22:30:25

Steve,
Looking through the 46 RM album in the gallery, there are a series of photos showing the 'Sgts' Mess' in Luneburg. The SNCOs have BD on and their shoulder titles seem, on close inspection, to be fully curved, there is, however a second 'title' badge just underneath the shoulder badge and above the Combined Ops badge.
It's difficult to determine whether this second title is also curved or not

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/units/Royal+Marine+Commando+Units/46/music.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

nick

Hi,
I would have thought the embroidered titles were made in 1945.

The titles in the photo that Nick highlighted were probably worn in the same way as the 45 RM Commando title below was worn. Maybe with the number ?46?. These could be embroidered types as well.

The 45 RM Commando title below was in use in 1944. There are photos showing the embroidered type and the Cash?s Tape type being worn by 45 RM Commando in May/June 1944.

I will see what else I can dig up over the next few days.

Is there any chance you could scan the section of the ?Sgts Mess? photo showing the title and save it as a ?tif file? rather than a jpeg. I have found that you get better results sometimes doing this.

As you probably know there are not that many photos around of 46 RM Commando. I think you have put the largest batch that I have seen on here.

Regards

Danny

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 15/04/2011 04:38:40

Danny L wrote:
Is there any chance you could scan the section of the ?Sgts Mess? photo showing the title and save it as a ?tif file? rather than a jpeg.

I'll have a go tomorrow.

I think you're close to it there - the title 'Commando' is not too curved so that is why I found it difficult to determine whether it was straight or curved but I think we'll find that the shoulder title is fully curved - unlike the 45 RM one shown.

There is a book available - The Story of 46 Royal Marine Commando by P.K.W. Johnson - which may have the answers...

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 16/04/2011 19:24:30

Danny,
Here as promised is the enlargement of part of that photo - to get the best result I converted to PNG then to PDF...

I think around about 800% is the best enlargement without it becoming too pixelated....

I'm still not sure but I think the Royal Marine shoulder title is curved, the Commando title is also curved and I don't know where the unit number (46) is...

nick

Danny

May I suggest you send a pm to Steve ( segeorge70 ) who sent me copies of his original photos for posting. He may be able to scan any relevant ones at a higher resolution thereby getting a much clearer result for you. Worth trying.

Pete R

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 18/04/2011 12:38:47

NIC wrote:Danny,
Here as promised is the enlargement of part of that photo - to get the best result I converted to PNG then to PDF...

I think around about 800% is the best enlargement without it becoming too pixelated....

I'm still not sure but I think the Royal Marine shoulder title is curved, the Commando title is also curved and I don't know where the unit number (46) is...

nick

Hi Nic, I have gone with this, although I believe the earlier Cash tape ones were straight. It would be good to know how and when styles changed and how accurate some of the reproduction stuff available is.

I managed to purchase a set of the original numerals. These are in red coton on black felt and say "No 46" (as in Danny's examples). They are curved rather than square making me wonder if they were made singularly in order to add to a Royal Marines arched title or perhaps been removed from the larger arched Royal Marines Commando title (again as in Danny's examples). Would the number always been above the RM titlle. Could it ever have been added before the RM title?

I am attempting to re-create how their BD's would have looked. At the moment I have the titles placed in the folllowing order, similar to Danny's 45 example.

No46 (curved)
Royal Marines (curved)

Commando (straight)

Combined Ops (round)

In the meantime, as Pete suggests, I will go through the photos and see if I can produce any clearer examples. I have also recently written to a veteran, hopefully he will be able to help. I will let you all know anything I findout.

Thanks everyone for your input so far.
Steve.

segeorge70 wrote:

NIC wrote:
I'm still not sure but I think the Royal Marine shoulder title is curved, the Commando title is also curved and I don't know where the unit number (46) is...

nick

I managed to purchase a set of the original numerals. They are curved rather than square making me wonder if they were made singularly in order to add to a Royal Marines arched title?

...or perhaps been removed from the larger arched Royal Marines Commando title (again as in Danny's examples). ?

Would the number always been above the RM titlle. Could it ever have been added before the RM title?

Steve.

Steve,
I think all those options are possible!
I especially think it possible that the number may have been mounted in front of the RM title...

The one fact I do know is that pre-1945 the titles were ROYAL MARINE,
post-1945 they changed to ROYAL MARINES

Nick

2013-01-16 15.15.19.jpg

This information from John Harrison with regard to A Troop, 46 (RM) Cdo.

In the field the troop wore the unit numeral on either woven cloth or 'Cash's Tape' at the top of the sleeve. Under that would be 'Royal Marines' on straight 'Cash's Tape' or on woven cloth. And under that would be 'Commando' on a 'Cash's Tape'. These were either sewn together or sewn with a small space in between, either way was acceptable. The larger 'all in one' badge was generally worn on your best 'walking out' BD's.

Interestingly, he mentioned beret badges were not worn in the field and at some point all insignia was removed in order to make unit identification more difficult.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/02/2016 20:25:36

Steve George wrote:

NIC wrote:Danny,
Here as promised is the enlargement of part of that photo - to get the best result I converted to PNG then to PDF...

I think around about 800% is the best enlargement without it becoming too pixelated....

I'm still not sure but I think the Royal Marine shoulder title is curved, the Commando title is also curved and I don't know where the unit number (46) is...

nick

Hi Nic, I have gone with this, although I believe the earlier Cash tape ones were straight. It would be good to know how and when styles changed and how accurate some of the reproduction stuff available is.

I managed to purchase a set of the original numerals. These are in red coton on black felt and say "No 46" (as in Danny's examples). They are curved rather than square making me wonder if they were made singularly in order to add to a Royal Marines arched title or perhaps been removed from the larger arched Royal Marines Commando title (again as in Danny's examples). Would the number always been above the RM titlle. Could it ever have been added before the RM title?

I am attempting to re-create how their BD's would have looked. At the moment I have the titles placed in the folllowing order, similar to Danny's 45 example.

No46 (curved)
Royal Marines (curved)

Commando (straight)

Combined Ops (round)

In the meantime, as Pete suggests, I will go through the photos and see if I can produce any clearer examples. I have also recently written to a veteran, hopefully he will be able to help. I will let you all know anything I findout.

Thanks everyone for your input so far.
Steve.

Hi Steve and the other Chaps
I am fairly new to this forum but am fairly well know on the British commonwealth badge forum I just recently purchased a fairly complete set of original documents , badges and bits that belonged to a chap in 46 Royal Marine Commando this is his badges below ( hope they upload OK not tried this before on here ) these follow the pictures of 46 RMC fairly well and have not been messed with one section is straight of his BD jacket this might help you steve

well Chaps could only get the one pic to go on here is the others steve

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 27/02/2016 20:24:27

well this is not going to plan Steve
The Bottom titles in this pic where on the picture of him the numeral was hidden underneath the RM section of the title folded under it. The 3 parts of the title have been stuck to a bit of a letter and where stapled to a bit of damaged plastic envelope will be getting a small frame to mount them in shortly with the numeral showing steve

This title is what I think may have been worn while he served with the HOLDING COMMANDO in june 1945 hes the 4 from right in the bottom row .