The meaning / significance of code numbers stamped on 1st pattern FS Knives.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 15/12/2010 17:50:32

Hi

I have been asked by a collector friend of mine called Brian Moyse to post a message on this site regarding numbers that have been stamped on some 1st pattern FS knives and other equipment belonging to Commando soldiers.

"I was wondering if you could help out with a bit of a problem we have at the moment. There are several First Pattern F-S knives already known to us that have been stamped 30946 on the handle. This was not done by Wilkinson so was added at some later time, it has been suggested that this was a stores number? I recently acquired from a UK collector a William Rogers Sheffield Bowie that is also marked 30946. This knife also belonged to Jim Dix (4 Troop 3 Commando), so now his knives are together again after more than 60 years.
Also our friend Roy has just unearthed a 1945 photo of 4 Troop 3 Commando where the number 30944 is clearly visible and hand painted on the kitbags.
The question is, what do these numbers 30944 & 30946 mean? I do not know if there any surviving members of 3 Commando, CVA members, other veterans or their decendants who might be able to help solve this problem?"

Cheers Andy

Scotty was in 3 Commando. Perhaps he knows about it.

Hi

I have just been sent the photo that I referred to in my original message and have posted it here and in the No3 album in the gallery. If you look at the photo you can clearly see one of the men's kit bags with what appears to be his name, rank and serial number. The rank looks like Pte, possibly Harper, serial No 1? / 4? followed by the digits 769163, does a commando with this name and serial No appear in any of the rolls for No3?
On the bottom of the bag is the number 30944 that Brian Moyse was interested in.

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 15/12/2010 19:35:04

Just a thought but could this number on the kitbags be the units draft allocation code for overseas service. I understand it related to where they began, and were to end their journey, and all going overseas were allocated one.

It looks like the same number on the kitbag of the guy behind him too.

It's possibly an identifying mark/number maybe relating to the particular Operation?

Nick

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 16/12/2010 02:25:43

Is it like this, It could be the code of the metal used in producing the knife? Quantities of chrome/stainless steel. Just a thought as with some other knives there is a steel code stamped?
Numbers on kit bag pure coincidence?
Kevin

Hello All

I think the numbers on the knife may be a goverment inspectors code.

I have heard of this before. Not sure of the bags.

Regards

John M

Extracts from F/S website

"There are grips of 1st Pattern knives with numbers like this one.

Gordon Hughes the author of
'A Primer of Military Knives', believes that it is a serial numbers marked AFTER DELIVERY from WSC and Ron Flook agrees in his book with the comment that it is more likely that it is a store number (page 53 plate107)"

Hi

Thanks to everyone for the replies, it looks as if the meaning of the numbers has been solved, unless anyone can come up with more definitive answers. Very interesting photo that you have posted kevin, regarding the knife number, has this been taken from a knife that you own?

Cheers Andy

No Andy, It was taken from the net. Because of so many dodgy knives on sale, I now only collect commemorative knives.
Cheers
Kevin

A great topic Andy!

Hopefully one we can get to the bottom of.

The stamped number 30946 is found on a small number of FS knives today. Along with this number stamped on one side of the grip top, there is always also a second stamping on the opposite side.

The second stamping is found to be either double or triple digits, and those catalogued to date are all numbered below 500.

The following images are from an original 1st pattern at the Spean Bridge museum, which I used as the basis for reproductions -

This is significant in itself, as it most likely corresponds to a Wilkinson order for 500 knives, which have been stamped with individual numbers as well as a recognised store number. The current speculation is that 30946 refers to an Achnacarry store number and that these knives correspond with Wilkinson order no 1176 on 29/4/1941 for 500 knives.

Andy, the discovery of the photograph with 30944 and also your bowie knife marking are great and hopefully we may be a step closer to confirming the number's meaning.

Before 1st pattern knives were first manufactured by Wilkinson in November 1940, there were a number of knives known as RBD knives known to have been ordered and used for training. This knife was..... a bowie knife!

Can you post any pics of the bowie? If it corresponds with the RBD, we may be onto something.

mcdonald this link might help
http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/fs/fs_knife1.htm

Kevin

As Paul already mentioned a picture of the numbered knife of Mr Dix would be highly appreciated!
The true meaning of these numbered 1st patterns is yet to be revealed although like Paul mentions we have an idea about what it is..

Regards, Ruben

Hi

I contacted Eric Buckmaster (2 Cdo) to see if he had any information to add regarding this topic. He has very kindly written to 3 former members of No.3 Commando to enquire of them. I will update this message with any relevant information received.

Pete R.

Hi

I have just contacted Brian Moyse who is the owner of the Jim Dix Bowie Kinife to see if it would be possible to have some photos made available. Brian is only too happy to oblige and will be forwarding these to me in the New Year, which I will in turn upload in to this message strand.

Cheers Andy