Commando Enlistment

Hello, I'm looking for some information about the commando unit my great uncle was enlisted into at Taunton in 1941.
His name was John Alfred (Jack) Watkins and he enlisted at Taunton on 15 March 1941. I have a copy of his service record which gives the following information under 'name of division':-
(2RM.GP.MMBDO 125/LREG. TAUNTON) HBL. Would this be 2 Commando?

According to the service record (which is only 2 pages and has very little information - is this pretty typical of the time?), Jack was made a corporal in Febraury 1945. I know that he cheated death at Salerno, but other than this I know very little. (I have his medals and he has both the Italy and Africa stars). Jack didn't join the veterans association after the war and didn't talk about his wartime experiences. He died in 1991.

Any information to help me with further research would be most appreciated.

Tracey Watkins

Hi Tracey,

Welcome to the CVA.
Do you have Jack's Service Number?

Nick

Hi Nick

The only number I can see on his service record is PLY. X102906, next to division and register no. Woul this be it?

Tracey

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 28/09/2010 10:25:02

Hi Tracey

The PLY number is a Royal Navy service number and the other details suggest he was in the Royal Marines.

2RM.GP.MMBDO 125/LREG. TAUNTON) HBL

Could the MMBDO actually be MNBDO. If so this would be Mobile Naval Base Defence Organisation so it would be:

2 Royal Marines Group MNBDO.

There were 2 MNBDO groups in WW2 . The second was formed in 1941 and disbanded just before D Day with most of the men absorbed into the RM Commandos. They did serve I believe in Italy before disbandment.

The HBL at the end of the number is
Home Based Ledger, i.e. miscellaneous personnel

As I said MNBDO 2 disbanded in April/May 1944 and most of the men were absorbed into the RM Commandos and an Anti-Aircraft Brigade, and to become landing craft crew for the Normandy landings that June .
Does it say on the very brief service record (not unusual I have heard for RN service records) anything around that date - April/May 1944 - as to being attached or moved to another unit?

Regards

Pete

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 29/09/2010 23:23:24

Hi Tracey,

As I suspected, and as Pete has said, Jack was a Royal Marine - he joined up through the Plymouth Division -hence the PLY.

The prefix ?PLY/X?, followed by numbers of six figures in the 100000 series, indicate ranks entered for Short Service during World War II.

But now we have something to work on!

Cheers,

Nick

Thanks Pete & Nic for the informaiton so far.
After my initial post last night I found somehting I knew we had, but hadn't really looked at. Jack had, for some reason, an English-Italian dictionary. I noticed last night that he had enscribed on the inside front cover:-
'This dictionary is the property of marine J Watkins, Carlentini, Sicily, 1943'. So he was in Sicily, which I didn't know before last night.

I've attached a couple of files - a scan of the service record showing dates, which would seem to show a move of some kind in 1944 and also some photographs.

Thanks again

Tracey

Hi,

From what I understand 41RM Commando were involved in the Salerno landings alongside 2 Commando. Could 41RM be connected to the above unit (2RM.GP.MMBDO 125/LREG. TAUNTON).

hope you have luck finding more information.

Regards Vic

Thanks Vic for the suggestion.
I really should have done more research on this before my dad died a couple of years ago. He would have been really interested in what UI'm finding out.

Many thanks

Tracey

40 and 41RM Cdos were both involved in the landings at Sicily as were MNBDO2. Vic is absolutely right in that 41RM Cdo were at Salerno whereas 40RM Cdo were not. The question is whether MNBDO2 were at Salerno. If not then your father may have been with 41RM Cdo at this stage. As the work of the MNBDO's involved amphibious work and beach landings I believe they may have been either there or with 40RM Cdo at the Termoli landings. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the MNBDO2 role in Italy might be able to help. On the service record portion you uploaded it mentions July 1944 as the move but all it states is Copra. This would have been added by the staff at Copra, a land based admin and records establishment in the UK and does not I believe mean he was posted there. I have seen this before on other RN Service Records. I was once told that Navy personnel were given copies of their service records when they left and that is why so little is on those that are now issued to enquirers. Not sure whether that is fact or not !

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 01/10/2010 01:02:55

Tracey,
So far it has been established that Jack was a Royal Marine

I believe that his records actually read 12 S/L Reg Taunton and this stands for 12 Search Light Regiment which would have been part of the MNBDO and that he served on Anti Aircraft duties until 1 Jul 44.

The Royal Marines were committed to a Mobile Naval Base Defence Organisation (MNBDO). This force consisting of Infantry, Anti-Aircraft, Searchlight, Anti-Tank and other units...

Jack's Service Record then show that from 2 July 44 - 1 Jan 46 he was 'posted to COPRA'

HMS COPRA was a Royal Navy shore base for the maintenance of personnel records and the calculation of pay and allowances for RN/RM personnel attached to Combined Operations. COPRA stands for Combined Operations Personnel Records & Accounts.
So we now know that Jack was on Combined Operations

Cheers,
nick

Thanks for all the information, which has given me something to work on.

Thanks again

Tracey

Tracey,
I don't know if the rest of Jack's Records that you have may hold other pertinent info that you may have overlooked - if you want us to have a look at the rest of it, by all means post it up.
In the meantime I'm still on the case...

Incidently, I'm reading a book about 41 RM Commando at the moment and it says that the slang for the Mobile Naval Base Defence Organisations (MNBDOs) was " Men Not to Be Drafted Overseas"

Nick

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 01/10/2010 01:01:56

Tracey,
Here's some info on 12 S/L Regt:

12th RM Searchlight Regiment: Formed January 1941 as part of MNBDO II. Operations on UK Southern Coast, in Sicily and Italy. Disbanded April 1944.

12th RM Searchlight Regiment
A Cadre of personnel from 11th RM Searchlight Rgt formed this 12th RM Searchlight Regiment in January 1941 as part of MNBDO II Air Defence Brigade.
The Regiment?s HQ was in the following locations, with the units commanded shown in brackets:
1 January 1941:
With AIR DEFENCE BRIGADE MNBDO II, South Hayling Camp, Hampshire (?N? and ?O? Batteries).
June 1941:
Truro, Cornwall, providing guide ?lights? for Allied airfields (?N? and ?O? Batteries).
Winter 1941 and 1942:
With AIR DEFENCE Gt BRITAIN on south coast of UK (?N? and ?O? Batteries).
March 1943:
Nottingham with Batteries concentrated for embarkation (?N? and ?O? Batteries).
Early summer 1943:
With VARIOUS ARMY COMMANDS in the Mediterranean when Batteries deployed in air defence in Egypt and Malta (?N? and ?O? Batteries).
July 1943:
Augusta, Sicily in air defences (as above).
January 1944:
With AIR DEFENCE BRIGADE MNBDO II Augusta where Batteries concentrated for embarkation (as above).
April 1944:
Burbank, Scotland, where HQ and ?N? and ?O? Batteries disbanded.

When the MNBDO was disbanded its personnel were used to swell the numbers of Marines in commandos and landing craft.

Regards,
nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 01/10/2010 01:01:22

other MNBDO Info:

SHIP............Location...................Function

MARTIAL.........Alexandria (Egypt).....MNBDO Depot Ship

MASHOBRA......Narvik (Norway).......MNBDO Base ship

MENACE...........Portsmouth..............MNBDO2 Base Ship

Nick

My late father, Jack Fitzpatrick, joined the MNBDO at Portsmouth in early 1941. He served on Crete, in the middle east, then went to Ceylon for jungle training and on to Burma. His unit was disbanded in late 43 or early 44 at which point he returned to his home unit in the Royal Navy at Devonport! In all that I have read about the MNBDO I have never seen reference to the fact that some hostilities only members were volunteers from the RN.Does anyone have any knowledge of this?
Regards,
Tony Fitzpatrick