John Burman, Number 3 Commando?

I'm still struggling with Official records, which haven't turned up any Commando Info. I know my Dad served in Burma and Malaya, and was demobbed in1946.
I would love to hear from anyone who served with him, he was a Scot from Aberdeen.
Joan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/05/2010 12:53:26

Hi Joan,
I'm sorry to hear that you not come up with any info on your father thus far - be patient, I'm sure something will crop up.

In the meantime, I see you're still struggling getting your head around the question of formations (battalions, divisions & brigades etc.)

Each Commando Unit was a battalion sized formation and formed a subordinate unit within a brigade.

A brigade usually comprised four Commando Units - 2 x Army, 2x RM

The 3rd Special Service Brigade [3 SS Brigade] was formed in 1943 and sailed for the Far East and saw action against the Japanese in the Burma Campaign.
On 6 December 1944 the Brigade was re-named 3 Commando Brigade, removing the hated title Special Service and its association with the German SS.
The subordinate units within 3 Cdo Brigade were:
No1 Commando
No5 Commando
No 42 RM Commando
No 44 RM Commando

With the cessation of hostilities they were in the process of running down through demobilization. As numbers decreased, No 1 Commando and No 5 Commando merged to form 1/5 Commando.

Gradually No 45 RM Commando, based in Hong Kong between January 1946 and May 1947, took over their policing duties until 1/5 Cdo was finally disbanded in January 1947.

I hope that clears it up a bit?

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/05/2010 23:47:55

Hi Joan

I have just had a read of this forum message and your previous ones. At the end of this message I have put a link to a section of the RAMC Journal 1948, Volume 91 - The Burma Campaigns 1942 - 45. If you read it you will see that many of the RAMC staff were often in the front line with the troops in the midst of the fighting. Often they were so close to the fighting that their bases were overrun by the Japanese and this reminded me of something you wrote in one of your previous messages. Could your father have possibly been in one of those medical teams attached to the Commandos that were fighting there. He may have been with them for a long period. If so, then he may not, as an individual, have been officially attached to the Commando, and as such that would not show any attachment on service records, ie. would he just be shown as being part of whatever field medical unit that was with them. There is a little known book called The Island of Terrible Friends which relates to the small medical team that went to Vis when No.2 Commando first went there. They were there before the main part of the Commando had arrived. Officially they may not have been Commandos as such albeit they were with them throughout that period. My father was good friends with an RAMC Sgt who was with 2 Cdo for a long period. He was accepted as one of them and even had a green beret, but would his service record have shown anything other than RAMC and the locations he was posted to. It is an assumption on my part but might explain the difficulties you are having. Anyhow here is the link and good luck with your search for more information:

http://www.ramcjournal.com/2000/oct00/morgan_jones.pdf

Best wishes

Pete

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 11/05/2010 09:06:49

On the record it talks of him passing a Trade Test as Nursing Orderly CI in 1944, and his postings always seemed to be to Field Ambulance units. He was in India and Burma etc. from 1942 to 1946, he finished with rank of Captain (would a Nursing Orderly be a Captain?).

With regards to the above, could the CI after Nursing Orderly refer to him passing as a Clinical Instructor rather than just an Orderly. As such I would see no reason why attaining the rank he did would be an issue. Reading parts of the RAMC journal above only goes to prove how difficult and dangerous the situation was for all personnel involved in the fighting in Burma, and many other places. Your father's award of Mentioned in Dispatches for "Gallant and Distinguished Services" is something to be proud of, and adds to the many awards attained by the RAMC over the years, and that still applies today with the medical teams in places such as Afghanistan.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 11/05/2010 13:35:08

Joan,
As Pete says the RAMC were a brave bunch of men carrying out vital work in extremely difficult situations. I have tried to show the format of a typical Field Hospital during WWII.

RAMC
The RAMC has a most distinguished record both in the practice of medicine and in the gallantry displayed by its members. In the 3 major wars (Boer, WW1 & WW2), the RAMC dealt with 14 million casualties, was awarded 14 Victoria Crosses (two with Bars), one George Cross, 630 Distinguished Service Orders, 1,806 Military Crosses, 464 Distinguished Conduct Medals, 2,375 Military Medals and 16 George Medals.
In WW2 an Infantry Division consisted of three Brigades, each with three Battalions. Each Brigade was served by one RAMC Field Ambulance which in addition to dealing with casualties from actual Battalions also cared for auxiliary units?Engineers, Service Corps, Signalers, etc. In war and peace the RAMC was responsible for the health and hygiene of these units.

Field Ambulance
A Field Ambulance consisted of three companies A, B, and Hq.

The line of evacuation of casualties was as follows:

The wounded were collected by stretcher bearers and taken by jeep or carrier to the Regimental Aid Post (R.A.P.) where the (Field Ambulance) Medical Officer (M.O.) and his orderly would give some immediate treatment. Depending on the severity of the wound, the Field Ambulance Personnel (of either A or B Coy) would evacuate the casualties to the Advanced Dressing Station (A.D.S) where there were all RAMC personnel and RASC Ambulance drivers. Here he would receive fuller treatment, inoculations, transfusions, application of splints, renewal of dressings from MOs and Nursing Orderlies (Class 1), they would then be collected by motor ambulance and taken to the Main Dressing Station (M.D.S.). The H.Q. of the Field Ambulance Company formed the Main Dressing Station (M.D.S.), where casualties and their records were taken, anti-tetanus serum is injected and urgent treatment given. After treatment wounded were then transported to a Casualty Clearing Station (C.C.S.).
A Walking Wounded Collecting Post (W.W.C.P.), usually set up about 2 to 5 miles from the frontline, to relieve pressure on the A.D.S during battle. Wounded are then collected by lorry and taken to the Casualty Clearing Station (C.C.S.).
From the C.C.S. casualties are then transported to a General Field Hospital for further treatment or surgical operation.
After treatment at the General Field Hospital the wounded were either moved to a Rest Station or a Convalescent Depot before returning to their unit or the more seriously wounded were evacuated back to U.K. by either ship or plane.

Notes:
1. Regimental Stretcher Bearers (RAPs) were not RAMC personnel
2. Field Ambulance drivers were normally RASC (Royal Army Service Corps)

Joan,
I thought you may like the RAMC Association address in case they can give you more info:

Address:

Corps Secretary
RAMC Association
HQ AMS
Former Army Staff College
Slim Road
Camberley
Surrey
GU15 4NP

http://www.ramcassociation.org.uk/

Nick

Thanks Nic & Pete, there is a lot of interesting reading in the info. and links that you sent.
Dad was definently in the Commandos, he volunteered at Fort George and went through all the training(one excercise was scaling the walls of Edinburgh Castle), which I understand was pretty grueling. He was on the St Nazaire Raid early on, before he went East.
My Mum died in 2008, and that is where we got a lot of info. from. My Dad has been gone since '72, and I really wish that I had asked him more questions, or listened more carefully when he did speak of the war.
I think that I will write to the address that you posted of the RAMC Association, Nic. Perhaps they have their own records, and would surely know if Dad was taken as a Commando. It's worth a try.
Thx Joan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 15/05/2010 14:17:18

Joan,

No problem. I think I can speak for us both when I say that Pete and I are more than happy to help as much as we can.
I'll certainly keep trying to find out some specific info and I hope you'll keep us all updated on anything you find out.

Happy hunting.

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 15/05/2010 19:13:13

Hi Joan

I have just seen a document from the War Office which gives the initial instructions regarding the formation of Commando units. In there in the section relating to the Headquarters of each Commando it states amongst other things, a breakdown of the staff, and this includes : 1 RAMC Officer and 5 Nursing Orderlies.

Another piece of your jigsaw !

Best wishes

Pete