PX105984 Donald V. Onyons - researching

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 02/01/2021 19:39:30

Hi Derek
The quote from Wikipedia (where anyone can post) does not cover the period of WW2 and before. It is post WW2. The Royal Marines Historical Society publication above by Major Alastair Donald RM is historically accurate. Have a read of the forward before the title and the names mentioned there. The Commonwealth War Graves Commission have an online database of those who died in WW2 and the following link will show you the names branches and service numbers of those who served in the Royal Navy, of which the Royal Marines were a part. You will see there the service numbers of Royal Marines all are as I stated above.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/search-results/?Surname=&Forename=&Initials=&ServiceNum=&Regiment=&ServedWith=United+Kingdom&ServedIn=Navy&DateDeathFromDay=1&DateDeathFromMonth=January&DateDeathFromYear=1939&DateDeathToDay=1&DateDeathToMonth=January&DateDeathToYear=1947&DateOfDeath=&CountryCommemoratedIn=null&Cemetery=&Unit=&Rank=&SecondaryRegiment=&AgeOfDeath=0&Honours=null&AdditionalInfo=&Page=29

Several of the Royal Navy numbers similar to that of your Father can be found in those who were from the Royal Naval Reserve as you will see below:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/search-results/?Surname=&Forename=&Initials=&ServiceNum=&Regiment=Royal+naval+reserve&ServedWith=United+Kingdom&ServedIn=Navy&CountryCommemoratedIn=null&Cemetery=&Unit=&Rank=&SecondaryRegiment=&AgeOfDeath=0&DateDeathFromDay=1&DateDeathFromMonth=January&DateDeathFromYear=1939&DateDeathToDay=1&DateDeathToMonth=January&DateDeathToYear=1947&DateOfDeath=&Honours=null&AdditionalInfo=&Page=12

I mention again the RN Commandos (also known as Royal Naval Beach Commandos) who did their Commando training in Scotland. Their history can be read on the Combined Operations website here. They operated in all theatres of the war.

https://www.combinedops.com/RN%20Commando.htm

Hopefully your new application for the service record might be more revealing.

The PO/PLY and CH which were abbreviated for the 3 RM divisions Portsmouth, Plymouth and Chatham always had an X after the div letters. Ie. POX then the service number. These were mainly issued to hostilities only marines irrespective of branch/ trade or colour of beret.

Royal Marines were only loaned to the commandos and were demobbed from their respective division at the end of the war/ hostilities.

All the commandos were then reformed leaving 40, 42 and 45 with 41 reforming for Korea and 43 making a few returns in the 60s.

My grandad was RM his number was POX/111957 he was a HO marine.

Looking at Dons number that?s navy. My own RM number began with PO and that was in 1996.

It?s a possibility he was attached as a naval rating to the commandos in a sigs/ comms role or was in a beach commando coordinating beach landings.

Thanks for the replies. It?s a real can of worms. We know more or less exactly where and when he served and on which operations, even some of the ships.
We know he was initially an Army commando as they all were regardless of which service they came from.
He was definitely a RM later on and served with 3rd SS Brigade/3rd Commando Brigade in Burma in 42 RM Commando during the 1944/45 Arakan campaign. He was also with 44 RM Commando on coastal hit & run raids there. He was very badly wounded during the Battle of Hill170 and sent to the military hospital in Trincomalee to recover.
We know he was never a RN Commando (they were formed long after he enlisted) nor anything to do with signals, comm?s etc.
What I?m trying to get info on is his transition from RN to army commando and then the RM. it would be nice to know more officially but as the RN replied to me a long time ago ?Proper record keeping was not a priority during the emergency?. It?s also a tragedy the Army commandos destroyed all records at the end of the war.
It would be great to get some informed feedback on the photos if anyone has anything to offer?

[quote=craig summerhill]Royal Marines were only loaned to the commandos and were demobbed from their respective division at the end of the war/ hostilities. [/quote]

RM?s weren?t loaned as such, they were an integral part of the brigades. The four brigades were deliberately comprised of two army commando and two RM commando units for the purposes of sharing experience, expertise and not least of all, harmony.

Derek. The marines were part of a division before the commando concept and at the end of hostilities were returned to divisions for demob. My grandfather was demobbed in Portsmouth it?s on his records. The commandos were reorganised at the end of the war where they kept 3 units that were from 3 different commando brigades and the army commandos disbanded for a while.

4th SS Bde was all Marines commandos -41,46,47,48.
1st SS Bde was 3 army and 1 RM commando 45 until a later reorganise brought 46 into 1st.
3SS Bde was 2 Army and 2 RM. 40 and 43
2 SS Bde was 1 RM 44 and the rest Army.

Until the service records are released. Good luck with your search.

Agreed, thanks. It was a rushed reply on my part.
War service records seem almost impossible to get.
I have his RN which is inaccurate and very incomplete, and they admitted as much!
No reply from RM or Army, but I doubt he has an army record anyway.
Just sent a new application to RM but apparently they are now taking over a year.
I was just hoping to link him to something or someone on here but I guess not.
He was a member of the association but even they never replied to my enquiries. I tried a different email address today but I don?t expect they?ll reply.
Many thanks for your input though, much appreciated.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/01/2021 17:53:11

Pete wrote:The P does not in itself stand for Royal Marines. The prefixes PO, PLY, CH, and EX do but as with the RN and RM numbers they have changed over the years. Here is some useful information about such numbers:

Royal Navy numbers
http://www.godfreydykes.info/ROYAL%20NAVY%20OFFICIAL%20NUMBERS%20%5BRATINGS%5D.htm

Royal Marines numbers
https://www.rmhistorical.com/images/RM%20Register%20Numbers.pdf

Was the number should be on the correspondence you received in your first application?

So, I have been looking into this a lot and doing a great deal of research. I have been able to confirm beyond doubt the above Royal Marines Numbers guide is not 100% accurate. It applies to most Royal Marines but certainly not all. There are several other instances of different official numbers for serving RM?s during WW2. Whilst I now believe my fathers RM number most likely began PO/X my research proves it could also have been PX, or even FX for that matter.
Don?t take my word for it, just spend an age ploughing through the CWGC lists for WW2 as well as the RN archive ROH.
I?ve also been able to ascertain that Royal Marines did indeed serve aboard aircraft carriers during WW2. I assumed he was aboard them whilst in the FAA, but clearly he could have been a Marine instead.
Finally with the much valued assistance of a military historian, I am told the group photo in the jungle is most definitely of Royal Marines, despite the varied uniform and as such almost certainly of men in the 3rd SS Brigade.
I post this merely as an aid to anyone who like me is struggling to learn more about a persons confusing military history.