Robert william boot

Hi Craig

Slowly getting nearer to my dad's service history, according to my mum dad saw service in Burma,Malaya and the d day landings,will look into the information you gave me.
I have applied for service records and to the modmo but due to the current situation I will be in for quite await.

Thanks

Phil

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 28/04/2020 22:50:49

Hi Phil,

Thanks for contacting me - as I said to you, I'm not as au fait with RM Commandos as I am with the Army Commandos, but I'll certainly give you my views...

First of all a little bit of history - which hopefully will make sense as we go along - but forgive me if I'm trying to teach my granny to suck eggs!

The Royal Marines [note I do not mention RM Commandos yet] trace their beginnings to the formation in 1664, under Charles II, of the 'Duke of York and Albany's Maritime Regiment of Foot'.

In 1755 a permanent Marine Corps of 5,000 marines was established and grouped into 50 companies under three divisions: Chatham, Plymouth and Portsmouth. It became the 'Royal Marines' in 1802, by an order of King George III.

In 1855 the Royal Marine Light Infantry (RMLI) was formed, followed by the Royal Marine Artillery (RMA) in 1859. The RMLI and RMA merged in 1923 to form a single Royal Marine Corps...

From 1942 some (not all) Battalions in the RMs were converted to form RM Commando units.

One of your photos shows your father wearing a Field Service cap - which dates this photo to pre 8 July 1943, when His Majesty The King gave his approval for the issue of a blue beret to be worn by Royal Marines...
He is also wearing what appears to be a white lanyard over his right shoulder.
Now as far as I know, the only RM Battalion to wear a white lanyard was 1st RM Battalion as it was formed from members of the Royal Marine Artillery and, as such, was entitled to wear the traditional Artillery white lanyard - the only Marine battalion to be granted the honour by officialdom...

In July 1943, 1st RM Battalion was converted to become 42 RM Commando...
On 14 August 1943 the Admiralty decreed that "all R.M. officers and other ranks serving in Special Service Force (Commandos) will wear a green beret in lieu of the R.M. blue beret".

In November 1943, 42 RM Cdo, together with No.1 Cdo, No.5 Cdo & 44 RM Cdo, were formed into 3 Special Service Brigade and sailed to India and the SEAC (South East Asia Command) where they took part in operations, in Assam & the Arakan and which included amphibious landings down the Burmese coastline including the landings at Myebon and the Battle of Hill 170.

Post war the Brigade (now renamed as 3 Commando Brigade) went on to Hong Kong and the New Territories to carry out Policing Duties.

42 RM Cdo then returned to India to prepare for Operation Zipper - the invasion of British Malaya.

So this may explain your father's connection with India & Burma.

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 29/04/2020 11:11:57

Hi Phil

I got your email and thought I would reply here to keep things together so to speak. One of the two photos of your Father does show a RN patch on his forearm. It is a horizontal gun surmounted by a small six pointed star and above the letter Q. This is a Gunnery rating badge and shows he was part of a ships Gunnery Team, the Q representing what his exact role was. Q is Quarters Section. This was the working of the guns and mountings and in particular the operations of the levers in power-worked mountings. A site called Kellys Badges has the exact same but with an R below which is Radar. The IWM have one with the addition of DEMS below the patch indicating a specific type of ship (not applicable in your case). They state that it was used between 1941 and 1948. Another site explains the lettering http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/br224/
(Scroll to the bottom of the page and click Next.)
So he was in the Royal Navy and then chose the Royal Marines as indicated by your second photo and his overall uniform. He could have gone to many places overseas in the Royal Navy before joining the Royal Marines, so it would be good if his Service Record names the Ships so you can investigate their travels in line with any dates on the Record.
One of the group photos you posted you mentioned had some writing on the back and you asked if it might have had any meaning. It must be his Unit at the time I believe, ie. 28th Royal Marine Battalion, 'X' Company, 14 Platoon. That Unit was formed in August 1944 according to this site here: http://www.royal-marines.net/units.html
More about them can be found here: https://www.arnhem1944themissingones.com/missing-soldiers-in-the-netherlands-1940-1945-allied-german-and-axis/missing-unknowns-royal-marines-royal-marine-commando-royal-navy-merchant-navy/28-royal-marines/

If you scroll down and click on 28 RM Battalion you will see more about it including the pictures of the shoulder flash of the Trident in the Triangle your Father is wearing in the second photo of him.

Hope this is of some help in your research.

Pete,

That is one photo but with a fold down the centre which makes it appears as two separate photos...
William Boot is the guy on the right of the photo, his right arm, with the Trident badge, is slightly in front of the RN Rating on the left.
Judging by the similarity I'm guessing that they are brothers - I'm sure Phil will confirm this!

Nick

I have just seen the writing below stating William is on the right so yes.

Hi Pete,Nick

Yes this is one picture and they are brothers.
This picture is stamp dated on the back as 21st May 1943.Bit confused about the trident badge on dad's right arm as I believe the 116th wasn't formed to much later on.
Any more clarity you can provide would be grateful.

Thanks

Phil.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/05/2020 16:12:09

Hi Phil,

Yes the Trident is a bit confusing...
It was suggested that he was in 116 Infantry Brigade Royal Marines, but the Brigade wasn't formed until 1 January 1945.

However, as I said to you, your father is wearing a Field Service cap and I have a two circulars from the Admiralty one, dated 8 July 43, which states the Blue beret will be issued in lieu of the Field Service cap and the second, dated 20 January 44, which states the Blue Beret has completely and permanently replaced the Field Service cap by 20 Jan 1944...

Pete suggests his unit was 28th Royal Marine Battalion formed in August 1944 - but again the Field Service cap would have been replaced by then...
And you tell us that the photo is date stamped " 21 May 1943 "

So that gives another couple of alternatives -

There was another unit that used the Trident badge in 1943 prior the formation of 28 RM Battalion and 116 Brigade RM.
or
Your dad decided for whatever reason to wear his obsolete Field Service cap for the photo of him and your uncle...

Still more digging to do yet!

Nick

Hi Pete,Craig, Nick

I may have found my dad's service number on the back of a photo.
CHX 105274
Is there anyway of gaining some more information linked to this number or will I still have to wait for his records post covid ?

Stay Safe

Thanks

Phil Boot

PHIL.

The service number is Chatham division. I suspect you will need the service docs, another step closer.

Hi Pete ,Craig

I have finally received my father's marine records,there is a fair amount of information to go through so may call on you to help with interpretation.
Looks like he earned 3 medals F and C defence and war medal.

Stay safe

Phil

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Hi

Can anyone tell me about the attached documents eg what was number 1 beach group or brigade,various training camps are also mentioned
On the third photo there is 6 commanding officer names,any idea what units they commanded

Lots of research about my dad to do so any information would be appreciated

Thanks

Phil Boot

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Last one

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Oops this one did not upload for some reaason

Reading the service history your dad was a Chatham division marine indicated by his service number.

The first location or unit RMRD is I believe Royal Marines Reserve Depot which was at Lympstone now known as CTCRM where Commandos train today.

RM Division could possibly be Chatham as a draft.

MNBDO is Mobile naval base defence organisation which was a large unit with varied roles.

28th Battalion Royal Marines has a small but colourful history, if you contact the RM historical society they have recently published a book on the 116 infantry brigade RM North West Europe 1945.

28th Bn ended up in Kiel looking after submarine pens as well as other locations. It mentions RMTG royal marine training group and is a comprehensive history of the brigade and battalions.

So your dad was a blue beret marine in a unit which in its short history did well and accounted for itself.

I will try and post a photo of the book.

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Medals

After waiting many months my father's medals they finally were delivered and yes it was worth the wait.
So it's worth applying for family records.

Thanks

Phil Boot