Hugh Maines, No1 Cdo

Hi Kevin

Yes I think that you are correct, in fact if you look at one of the earlier messages in this thread, you will see that Nic came to the same conclusion, thanks for the reply.

Cheers Andy.

Hi Kevin

Yep you certainly have seen Nic's reply!

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 05/02/2009 00:19:58

Hi

Have just been looking at some photos of Lord Lovat and noticed quite a good resemblance to the officer in my French raid photo. I also notice that one of the accounts that Nic posted concerning Operation Collar was written by Lord Lovat and I wonder if he also took part in this operation himself? The facial structure, and hair style of Lovat are as I say very similar to the face of the officer in my photo and like Lovat the officer in my photo has also got a moustache. Has any body else got any thoughts or info concerning this?

Cheers Andy

Andy,
When I first saw the photo, I too was struck with the likeness of the officer to Lovat; however, I don't think Lovat was present on the Op Collar raid.

The extract from his book (March Past) was him explaining about the early days of the Commandos and you'll note that he talks in the third person plural (they) about all the groups in that particular raid. Having read his book, I noted he always used first person(s) singular & plural (I & we) when describing anything he took part in.

The only niggle in the back of my mind is that you say there were no Commando casualties on the St Vaast Bay Raid, but there was one in Capt Davies' party:

The other party under Captain Davies had a very different experience. As they approached their designated landing area they realised they were heading for the wrong beach. Time was short so they carried on in the hope of snatching a prisoner. On landing they were immediately challenged followed by rapid machine gun fire. Davies ordered an attack on the machine gun position which involved climbing a 10 ft sea wall and breaking through two coils of Dannart wire. In the process of negotiating these obstacles two more machine guns opened fire and the Commandos had no choice but to withdraw. By the time they boarded their ALC one of their number was wounded and two were missing. Under the circumstances nothing further could be done so they returned at full speed to their waiting MGB

There is always a possibility that there was also a Lieutenant on Davies' party and this group did make it back to the MGB...

Nothing is ever simple with The Commandos is it?

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 07/02/2009 15:41:02

Hi Nic

Yes I considered the possibility of the Capt Davies raid, which I think was at Courselles, however my father told me that they encountered a German patrol which they were just about to ambush when someones magazine dropped out thier machine gun, which gave thier position away. This particular incident was also described in the article that you quoted from Lovat's book "March Past" concerning Operation Collar, the other significant point was the wound that Dudley Clarke received to his neck and ear. Judging by the position of the bandage on the wounded figure in my photo, it does seem to be also in the neck and ear area. Having said this I also have a slight niggle in that the articles that you quoted extracts from, although slightly different, all agreed that no German bodies were brought back from any of the Operation Collar raids. However my father told only three things concerning this photo, firstly it was on the coast of France, secondly the afore mentioned magazine incident and thirdly at the time the photo was taken there was still the body of a dead German in the bottom of the LC. Untill I read both Pete's and your excellent quotes concerning Operation Collar it was the fact that the Officer in my photo seemed to be a Lt and what my father told me about the German corpse that initially led me to believe that this was the St Vasst raid carried out by No1 Commando. However I think the magzine incident, the postion of the bandage on the wounded man and the fact that my father was in No11 Ind Coy lead me to think that this is probably a photo of Operation Collar. Of course I don't know if I will now ever be able to completely confirm this, as the men who took part in this raid are all probably no longer with us.
I have also contacted another person on this site, who has been carrying out research in to Lord Lovat's military history and he is also of the opinion that this is unlikely to be Lovat. It was just a thought as there is quite a strong superficial resemblance between the Officer in my photo and Lovat.

Many thanks for the reply.
Cheers Andy.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 21/02/2009 13:13:59

hi

as requested earlier in the thread i have attached a blow up of the officer
for identification purposes .

Also an order appears to have been given by the person standing behind the injured man and something is being done to a piece of canvas laying in the lc ...our unfortunate German guard perhaps ?

all the best

steve

sorry did not see the officer one had already been done ..and yes my initial thoughts were it looked like him

Hi Steve

Thanks for the reply, you have raised some interesting points concerning the men standing in the LC, although I had already enlarged the face of the officer I must say that your shot is a much better quality one than mine!

Cheers Andy

i can do the whole photo and send it to you if you want

let me know all the best

Steve

Hi Steve

Thanks for the offer, I have actually had the original digitally repaired and enlarged by a friend of mine and a very good job he has done too. However I think the poor quality of my enlargement is down to my poor scanning ability, ironically my scanner is quite a good quality Canon model, so I am obviously doing something wrong and have still got a lot to learn.
Again many thanks for the offer, it is very much appreciated.

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 22/02/2009 02:00:48

hi andy ..

change your settings on the scanner to 300 dpi some default to 150

all the best

steve

Every time I look at this photo I think of more questions,

eg. The officer is wearing rank badges and a Sam Brown, but "Dudley Clark" isn't...

Nick

Hi Nic

Yes that occurred to me also, after all he was a Lt Col, so you would expect there to be some sort of rank insignia visible. Unless of course, due to his importance, he was possibly trying to conceal his identity in case he was captured, after all he was an advisor to Churchill.

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 02/05/2009 02:54:25

Hi

I just thought that I would update this particular strand of research, with some new and important info that I have recently recieved. I have been contacted by the Nephew of Elwyn Edwards (Dr Len Donnel), who was one of two Commandos who was killed while taking part in a raid on Luc sur Mer (Code name Operation Chopper) on the French coast on the 28th Sep 1941. Dr Donnel has positively confirmed that the raid photo that I have upoladed earlier on in this message is indeed of the St Vaast Bay (code name Deepcut) raiding party, which was the second raid that was carried out on the same night. He has also stated that my raid photo is actually part of a sequence of four photos that were taken of the St Vaast party, by the Medical Officer of the raid support ship, the Prince Leopold. Dr Donnel has got copies of these photos, which I am hoping to obtain copies of in the near future. However he has sent me a photocopy of an extract from a book titled "When Wales Went To War", which includes one of these other photos. Although, being a photo copy, it is not very good quality the man with the bandaged head who appears in my photo can also clearly be seen in this "new" shot. The majority of this paricular extract is based on Dr Donnels research, the extract also includes photos of Elwyn Edwards.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 17/06/2014 15:46:30

Late to the party guys.I'm an ex RWF man. I've discovered today, that one of my Comrades Branch members Ted Jones MM, was possibly a member of 11 Ind Company and took part in Op Collar. I've spoken to him today, his memory is very hazy, but he does remember that the RN couldn't supply the speed boats, so the RAF coughed up. Like Hugh Maines, he had joined 9 Ind Company from the RWF(10th Bn). I believe he landed on Stella Plage with Maj Todd and Lt Col Clarke. He knew the raid was the first after Dunkirk, but he had no idea of its significance. Such was the secrecy I suppose, he wouldn't be aware his raid was the first of its type anywhere.

Ted gave a newspaper interview ten years ago and the detail fits with the activity at Stella(see attached). He remembers the name Maj Todd, he also remembers the firefight that occurred as soon as they got out of the boat. He spent a long time in the water, hiding, waiting for the speed boat to return.

He later went to 2RWF, where as a section Commander he won an MM in 1945 in Burma, single handedly dealing with the enemy cut-offs he discovered in a planned Jap Ambush.

For his age, he is in good shape, we will be sitting down to dinner with him on the 28th June as our Branch commemorates its 60th Anniversary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 17/06/2014 18:42:25

and by a strange stroke of fate, 74yrs later the nominal roll for 11 Ind Coy. Guess who's name is directly below Ted Jones MM?I. Maines!!!! Whats the odds on that?

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