RM44 Arthur DOOLEY EX4045, killed at Achnacarry

Hi Nick,
You have to apply through the Ministry of Defence with proof of ID to access the WW2 records. As Arthur also didn't have any offspring, my uncle was next of kin so he signed the paperwork for me from England. I don't live in the UK so it was also difficult getting cheques in sterling, so my uncle helped me out with that too. It takes time, but is worth it.
I'll dig out Arthur's service record this week.
It certainly sounds like they died of accidental (or malicious) causes rather than anything else. I wrote a letter to one of the other commandos who was training with them (he's a distant relative also) and was there when Arthur and Eric died. He kindly wrote back to me but couldn't give me much more info. He was one of the guys who mentions the incident in Imperial War Museum interviews.

I'm also keen to get a memorial into the memorial garden at Spean Bridge so you may be interested in doing that for Eric too.

Private Message me with your email address and I'll send you what I have.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/03/2016 18:25:24

For those Interested, this is the only photo my immediate family have of Sgt Eric Hookway Gibson with his parents Susan (Nee Hookway) and father William Ramage Gibson. Age undetermined but assumed to be of secondary school age.

A wonderful photo!
I wish I had a photo of Arthur as a child.
Luckily I have a number of him as an adult, and even a couple of him as a marine before his commando training.

Thank you. We seem to be in an opposite position to you, no photos as an adult (yet!). I note that the 44RM was formed in 1943 so assumably Eric was in the Royal Marines before hand given that he was a Sergeant when he died. He would have been 18 or 19 when war broke out and was 23 when he died, so went up the ranks quite quickly. That's the missing pieces I'm trying to find. My Great grandfather (Eric's maternal uncle by Marriage) was a Royal Marine (light infantry) as was his father before him. Seems to be a common occurrence, aided I guess by coming from a Maritime town (Bideford).

Does anyone know how many men were killed in accidents whilst training ?

Nick, it will be exciting when you see Eric's service record and find out where he was beforehand. Perhaps you'll find a photo from his marines days.

Peter, I believe quite a few men died in training but not sure of the figures.
I visited the museum on the Achnacarry site and they were excited to hear about Arthur because they always told people that men died in training but never had specific stories about them.

Can't wait Annie! Need to liaise with my uncle now to get the paperwork sorted. Eric and Arthur must have been the first intake of Commando recruits from the 44 RM at Achnacarry as the 44rm was formed in August 1943, the course was 6 weeks and as we know, they died in September '43. Will be so interesting to know what Royal Marine Division they recruited out from.

I remember my father telling me that during the crossing of the river (in full flood - winter ) using the ropes, the man carrying the mortar base plate fell and his body was never recovered.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 11/04/2024 01:06:00

A bit more about Arthur...

I've been through Arthur's service record and extracted the following information:

Arthur DOOLEY EX/4045
Enlistment: 28 February 1940
Date of Death: 19 September 1943 (accident on duty)

Service:
HBL RM Brigade 28 February 1940 - 1 April 1940
HBL (RM Brigade) 2 April 1940 - 31 July 1943
HBL RM Commando 1 August 1943 - 19 September 1943 (DD) [Discharged Dead]

Promotions:
Lance Corporal 14 June 1943
Corporal (A/Ty) 1 August 1943

In 1940 he served in Dakar and Freetown as part of the 3rd Battalion.

There are quite a few Imperial War Museum interviews by men who were in the 3rd Battalion and then transferred to 44RM...
Below are some links to the interview that mention either 3rd Bn or 44RM, and a transcription I did of the part of John Adair Johnson's interview mentioning Arthur and his brother Stan, including Arthur's death.

Baker, Harold Charles Hill 'Bob (IWM interview)
British marine served with 44 Commando, Royal Marines in Arakan, Burma, 1944-1945
Catalogue number: 18521
Production date: 2000-02-11
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80018946
Aspects of enlistment and training with Royal Marines in GB, 1941-1942: background to enlistment in Wolverhampton, 1941; reporting to depot at Exton, 11/11/1941; character of training at Lympstone; memories of Colour Sergeant Budd; selection procedure for signalers; signal training at Royal Marine Signals School, Saundersfoot. Period with 3rd Bn Royal Marines, 101 Bde in GB, 1942-1943: posting to unit; move to Shirley, Southampton. REEL 2 Continues: Aspects of period with 44 Commando in GB and India, 1943-1944: transformation of unit to commando role; commando training at Achnacarry...

Bell, Thomas Charles 'Dinger (IWM interview)
British NCO served with 44 Commando, Royal Marines in Arakan, Burma, 1944-1945
Catalogue number: 20309
Production date: 2000-05-10
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80018883
Period with 3rd Bn Royal Marines in GB and during Dakar Raid, 1939-1941: opinion of quality of first batch of marines; belief that Germans would invade, summer 1940; memories of Dakar raid, 9/1940; background to how 3rd Bn became 44 Commando; attitude towards Dakar raid. Period with 44 Commando in GB and India, 1941-1944: character of commando course at Achnacarry; description of 'Me and my Pal' system; casualties during training; contrast between training and action; billeting system in Kent; problems of seeing wife and baby, 1943...

Parish, Kenneth Peter (IWM interview)
British officer served with 3rd Bn Royal Marines in GB, 1939-1943; served with 44 Commando, Royal Marines in India and Burma, 1943-1945
Catalogue number: 19920
Production date: 1999-12-15
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80018438
Period with Royal Marines in GB, 1939-1940: joining marines, 11/1939; character of discipline; joining 3rd Battalion at Bisley, 1940; abortive raid on Dakar including preparations at Scapa Flow, poor security during operation, calling off of operation and return to GB; selection for commandos; training with 44 Commando at Achnacarry, 1943...

Webber, Alfred John (IWM interview)
British NCO served with 3rd Bn Royal Marines in GB, 1940-1943; served with 44 Commando, Royal Marines in India, Ceylon and Arakan, Burma, 1944-1945
Catalogue number: 20267
Production date: 2000-03-30
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80018943
Recollections of period with D Coy, 3rd Bn Royal Marines during Dakar Raid and its aftermath, 9/1940-1/1941: orders to make wills at Plympton; relations with civilians and dockers in Liverpool; move to Scapa Flow. REEL 2 Continues: voyage from GB to Dakar aboard Sobieski; supposed role of marines in Dakar; move to Freetown after abortive raid, 9/1940- 1/1941; bugle call 'Letters from Lousy Lou'; sight of ocean liners in convoys at Freetown; move to Gibraltar, 1/1941; character of period in Gibraltar; description of term 'short arm inspection'; return to GB. Aspects of training with 3rd Bn Royal Marines in GB, 1941-1943: training to Stobb's Camp near Hawick; exercises at Inverary and visit by Winston Churchill; reaction to sinking of HMS Hood, 5/1941; exercise at Scapa Flow. REEL 3 Continues: move to camp at Velindre; character of Exercise Berwyn; entertainments at Velindre; move to Shirley near Southampton; promotion to sergeant and move to B Coy; exercises on Isle of Wight; operating PIAT; practical joke played on Canadian NCO, 1943; flax-pulling role at Haverfordwest, 1943. Period with 44 Commando in GB and India, 1943-1944: formation of unit; training at Achnacarry; accommodation at Achnacarry; move to Folkstone-Hythe area...

Johnson, John Adair (IWM interview)
British NCO served with 44 Commando, Royal Marines in GB, India and Arakan, Burma, 1943-1945
Catalogue number: 20516
Production date: 2000-07-17
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80019232
Recollections of training with Royal Marines in GB, 1942-1943: training at Lympstone; posting to 3rd Bn Royal Marines; transfer to commandos; reception at Spean Bridge; arrival at Achnacarry; coping with commando course and promotion to sergeant; death of Arthur Dooley in mortar accident; running the Dark Mile at Achnacarry. REEL 2 Continues: post- war visits to Achnacarry; attending Spean Bridge commando memorial. Period with 44 Commando, Royal Marines in GB, 1943...

TRANSCRIPT of JOHN ADAIR JOHNSON (From Reel 1, approx 25.00 mark)
When we marched into the camp there were graves with headstones on them, with various Commandos that had died by being stupid in the country, you know. But at that time it looked real, you know. And the one thing I always regard Scotland as good for was that when we got there it was raining, or whatever you call it, Scotch Mist, and by the time we'd finished it had never stopped raining. Which meant that the weather was cool, and as a result, I can march anybody in the unit off their feet because they got no blisters.
I'd been a PTI, physical training instructor with the Liverpool clubs, boys' clubs, so I was fit and I was agile, and I got a good report, and I was good up in the trees and on the death-slide as they used to call it. Cross country, speed marching, I was good on that. And as a result, when the course was finished, I learned I'd been promoted Sergeant. So we went down to Folkstone from Spean Bridge.

Oh, incidentally, I don't know whether it's of interest... I had a brother-in-law called Stan Dooley, who was in Number 5 Battalion and then transferred into 45 Royal Marine Commando. And his brother, Arthur Dooley, was in our unit, with us at Spean Bridge, Achnacarry. And at that particular time they were experimenting with two-inch mortar bombs, and with a two inch mortar bomb you always had a little team, two men. One feeds the bomb into the thing and the other works out the distances, because it was only an elementary type of thing, but it was very accurate once you got used to it, you know.

And Arthur Dooley and his mate are on the bomb, on the two-inch mortar, and Arthur Dooley's lying alongside it. That was his job, to lie alongside it. And what was happening, he was the ninth actually. What was happening, the bombs were exploding in the barrel before they took off. And of course Arthur was killed. Now in those days, before an enquiry was set up over the deaths, there had to be ten men killed. And Arthur Dooley was the ninth. But they didn't have any more because they stopped it then. They realised it overstepped the mark. And I had a bit of a fight, I was hoping I could bring the body home because at that time my wife's sister was courting Stan Dooley, his brother. And I thought if I could accompany the body home I could see the family and all that, but there was another scouser in the unit who was senior to me, a fella called Ginger Rankins, and he got the job [unintelligible] I don't know whether he's still alive.

Oh Annie, that's fab. A great deal to go on! :)

Very interesting thread.

Thank you so much for the IWM Interviews - I'm listening to them now. Thomas Bell was born and grew up just a few miles from where I live - he was born the same year as my dad.

I'm particularly interested in the stories of Dakar - dad sailed on the Sobieski and disembarked in October 1940, with 10 Independent Company. He told me about this when I was little and the fact that the Operation was called off and they filled in their time doing extra training. It's so good to be able to listen to these men. Thanks again!

Fantastic thread that demonstrates exactly what this Website & Forum is about.
By sharing snippets of information on the forum we can learn more about our fathers/grandfathers/uncles/cousins etc and help others find out about theirs.
I have really enjoyed the exchange between all parties in this thread.

The dreadful story of the Mortars exploding has been told to me by a friend and No.5 Commando Veteran when he was relating his memories to me

RN wrote:During my time at the Depot we had our first casualties. One of the weaponry lessons involved firing a 2? mortar using smoke and also HE. One of the Troops was using HE when a bomb, dropped into the mortar tube, immediately exploded resulting in several deaths and injuries. There was even talk of possible sabotage in the ordnance factory supplying the bombs...

Nick

Thank you Nic (Nick) for that snippet. Certainly backs up the thoughts of Annie's family etc. and puts some more detail into the story. An interesting read in the transcript from the interview of John Adair Johnson that an investigation wouldn't take place into training deaths until 10 people were killed. All fascinating insights.

Thanks, all! Such interesting insights.
I haven't finished listening to the interviews but I'm really enjoying them.
There was an old 2" mortar in the Achnacarry museum, and it was awful to see exactly what killed Arthur and Eric.

There are still a couple of things I'd like to figure out.
Arthur's service record has a box for D.N.A. Wills Number and there's a number in there.
I haven't found a mention of this anywhere - is this a will that may be stored somewhere? One of the interview overviews mentions that they were made to write wills... is this what it would be?

It seems the family may have wanted further information on Arthur's death as there's a page in his service record with a handwritten note dated 1950 that mentions that enquiries need to be made in a specific way. I'm having trouble reading it so will post a photo this afternoon to see if any of you have better luck. The family legend is very strong that someone was punished for Arthur's death, but unfortunately no one who was alive then has clear memories of it.

Hi Annie, the wills thing struck a chord with me too after reading the entry about being made to write wills. However I've just found that DNA means Director of Naval Accounts. Seems DNA (Wills) followed by a number is inscribed on medals amongst other things. Will update when I find out more.