We have the army records for my Grandfather but they don't seem to tell us anything

thank you. Nice to see what they look like.

When I collect for the Poppy Appeal I see lots of veterans with their medals on and some have pointed out the more unusual ones but I have never thought to ask which the general ones are.

I would assume they probably got both of those then as they served the whole war.

I think that this thread covers most of the info?

http://rwf-forum.co.uk/vBulletin/showthread.php?18590-Frank-Williams-WW2-Wrexham-TA-RWF-mix-of-units-Killyleagh-Possible-Commando-time

Kevin

Thank you Kevin - yes that is my other post on the RWF forum. I still don't understand though how he could have been a commando but with absolutely nothing mentioned in any of his records, or how he was supposedly in one location (Lichfield) but ending up in random hospitals miles and miles away on the north west Wales coast. If he was part of 2 independent company then would this not be somewhere on his army records or is there somewhere else I might find out a bit more about it?

Could I ask another question please?

If someone WAS attached to one of these independent companies then would their records be held somewhere else? I mean from what I understand they remained as staff of their original company (is that the correct term?) so in this case the RWF but if they were then elsewhere doing things for an independent company then would there be a different set of records for them?

Also does anyone know which commando unit it was where half of them were due to go to India in I believe autumn 1942 but couldn't go due to illness so the other half of the company were sent instead?

Thank you

Hi

My father Hugh Maines (also a member of the RWF) was in two independent companies prior to the formation of the Army Commandos. These were No's 9 and 11 Ind Comp, I have a copy of my father's Army records and both of these units are recorded in one document (Army form B200b) as are all the other units that he was a member of ie No 1 Special Service Brigade and finally No1 Army Commando.
No1 Commando was in its initial formation made up of volunteers from mainly Welsh Regular Army regiments, so much so that it was often referred to as the Welsh Commando. This situation changed drastically after they returned from the Tunisian Campaign. Tag Barnes stated in his book Commando Diary that No's 1 original number of approx 600 men was reduced to around 95 by the time they returned to England.

Cheers Andy

thank you very much - so any posting to an independent company should have been on there then as we have that form. I really don't understand it then. He only ever mentioned the Norway thing and never said he did any other raids or saw any other action but I just can't see why he would have lied about it, and had the information he did seem to about it all. Plus we have the question then of what he was doing because on reading his record he could have just been sat drinking coffee to be honest but getting promoted and then court marshaled. oh well it sounds like we will never find out.

I appreciate your help.

Anniek wrote: I still don't understand though... how he was supposedly in one location (Lichfield) but ending up in random hospitals miles and miles away on the north west Wales coast.

Still looking at the records and although I can't yet find any connection with the Commandos, I can answer, in part, you question about being based in Lichfield but ending up in hospital in Wales.

The records show he was posted from 4th Battalion RWF at Downpatrick, on 14/3/42, to 31st Battalion RWF at Lichfield on 15/3/42.
The next entries [from 16/3/42 to 17/12/43] are all marked Field.

Obviously, in time of war, security is paramount and it is important to restrict information about units - by saying that 31st Bn RWF were in the 'Field' doesn't give any information away.

Your grandfather was in Wales - that we know because of his visits to the various medical facilities - what needs a bit more research is what he/his unit were doing there...

Nick

Anniek as Andy mentions all the information related to your grandfather's service would be on his service record. As unknown to me and the rest of the family I found, when reading my father's records that he served three months hard labour in Swansea prison for a felony committed in 1924 whilst serving with the RWF in Pembrokeshire, (he was released a week early as the battalion was heading for India). Also I have a copy of his service records with the Indian Army, which as with his British Army records are very precise in detail, and gives no information of his movements with the Independent Companies, SSB, No1 Commando, 142 Commando (Chindits), 204 Military Mission (China) and his service with the Royal Enniskillen Fusiliers (Arakan) whilst on active service. But does record his transfer (with dates) into these units. The records are what they are, a record of a soldiers service. A soldiers pay book would give a little more information regarding his movements but I haven't seen a pay book to comment further, a soldiers photograph in uniform, Battalion dairies could also provide information as to his movements.
Finally don't give up, dig a little deeper, after thirty years of digging I like others have many, many unanswered questions.
Kevin

thank you.

ok the field thing makes sense - I had naively been thinking field was them being too lazy to write Lichfield so just writing field. I hadn't thought about it being 'out in the field'. Someone on the RWF forum thought it was possible that as 31st battalion was 'home' then he could have been on some sort of coastal defence in Wales which could explain the arrangement of the hospitals he was in and would make sense if he knew the area as well because he was from North Wales.

It is just strange though, why would he make up going to Norway or training in Benbecula? I mean I suppose people did lie about what they had done, especially if they felt they hadn't done anything 'interesting' enough but why invent Norway (and I wouldn't have thought many people would even have HEARD of Benbecula), wouldn't you come up with something more likely/more common? And to have been visibly distressed by Norway things later in life would have been quite an act to put on. He hadn't mentioned Norway at all until then so he had never claimed it straight after the war as a boasting point or anything. He just said he had been there, they had only been on land for a couple of days, dug trenches, were very heavily bombed and he lost friends and were evacuated.

I find it all very fascinating but also quite sad in some ways, I won't ever get the chance to ask him because his life was cut short when he was in his 50s. There aren't any surviving photographs other than his one uniform picture which I assume was right at the start of the war. At least we are lucky though that he survived the war unscathed unlike so many. Some of the stories I am reading online now when people are looking to find out what happened to relatives, where they are buried and so on makes me realise just how lucky my grandparents were.

hi Annie,
Whilst we wouldn't be able to upload the photo of your grandfather to the Gallery until we're satisfied that he was a commando, it would do no harm to post it in this thread - it may give some clues.

Don't discount your grandfather's stories as being lies - the early days of Independant Companies and Special Service brigades were covered in a shroud of secrecy, later that it made good propaganda to spread the word about these elite troops.

Let's continue with the research to see if something more definite crops up...

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 29/01/2014 22:47:45

thanks Nic - his photo is on here http://www.flickr.com/photos/einnaf/

I assume this is just his initial RWF or TA uniform.