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NIC
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Joined: 10/04/2007 22:56:27
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Hi Sarah,
I'm afraid I disagree with John regarding the qualifying criteria for the Burma Star - please see link to MoD's info regarding medals (Burma Star).
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/BurmaStar.htm

Nick

Nick Collins

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Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"We may feel that nothing of which we have any knowledge or record has ever been done by mortal men, which surpasses their feats of arms. Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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sjb007
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Hi Nick

I have looked at the link you sent, thank you. But that does mean Dad could still qualify doesn't it, if he was there i.e. One or more days between 1941 and 1945 and he did receive the 1939-45 Star, but it alls depends on where he was if I have read the info correctly.???

Kind regards
Sarah
NIC
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hi Sarah,
Yes you've got it right - generally the qualifying service period for the Burma Star could only begin after the 1939-1945 Star had been earned by 6 months' service in an operational area.
But as your father would only then need to do one day's service in Burma it would suggest that, despite being in Ceylon, he didn't actually enter Burma.

Nick

Nick Collins

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Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"We may feel that nothing of which we have any knowledge or record has ever been done by mortal men, which surpasses their feats of arms. Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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John M
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Joined: 18/04/2007 16:22:37
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Hello Sarah

I have to disagree with Nick on this.

I did mention combined time.

Yes he could have been there and did not apply for his entitlement.........many service men didn't apply for their entitlement
as they were affronted by the fact that they HAD to apply.
Unlike after WW1

The medal office have been challenged many times over this and won't thank me for saying so.

I had a real battle with the medal office over my fathers entitlement to one of his medals and they conceded.

You cant therefore take medals awarded totaly to reflect campaigns that that individual took part in.

If you have written evidence to support your claim reapply for his medal.


regards

john M

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/05/2012 23:10:14


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NIC
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Joined: 10/04/2007 22:56:27
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John M wrote:

After a very quick scan of your comments here.........I can quickly say that a person did not always get the medal award for various campaigns unless they had spent enough time in that theatre. e.g The Burma Star needs six months combined in that theatre for soldiers.

john M


John,
You may have mentioned 'combined service,' but you said, "in that theatre..." which is not accurate information.

The 1939-45 Star was awarded for any period of operational service overseas between 3 Sep 1939 and 8 May 1945 (2 Sep 1945 in the Far East).

The qualifying service period for the Burma Star could only begin after the 1939-1945 Star was awarded and was awarded for 1 or more days' service in Burma between 11 Dec 1941 - 2 Sep 1945.

Sarah,
The more I read about MNBDO1, the more it becomes evident that the main body of this force did not enter Burma - although a party of 4 officers and 102 ORs volunteered for 'special service of a hazardous nature'.
This force, commanded by Major D Johnston, became known as Force Viper and left Colombo on 8th Feb 42 and disembarked at Rangoon on 11 Feb 42.

In his book, 'The Royal Marines 1939 -93,' Nick van der Bijl tells of MNBDO1 losing 1200 men - mostly captured - during the evacuation of Crete.

He also tells of an unsuccesful raid on the port of Tobruk on 14 Sept 42 where again a number were captured.

So now you will see that by building up these snippets of information regarding the places that you mention your father's records can start to make sense.

Nick







Nick Collins

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Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"We may feel that nothing of which we have any knowledge or record has ever been done by mortal men, which surpasses their feats of arms. Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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John M
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Thanks Nick

I seem to have left out the word 'plus'.........computers/my typing hey.

But I think Sarah gets my main drift..........

John

CVA Research Group

Do not speak.....unless it improves on Silence.

A good teacher opens the door.....you must enter yourself.


For Dad No 12 Commando & 4 Troop No 1 Commando
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NIC
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John,

My point was that you imply that, to be awarded the Burma Star, one had to serve for 6 months in Burma.

That wasn't the case - it was any period of overseas operational service (this was the criteria for the '39-45 Star) then 1 (one) day in Burma.

It is also unlikely that Sarah's dad - having applied for the 1939-45 Star, Africa Star, Defence Medal, War Medal 1939-45 - would then not apply for the Burma Star if he was entitled.

Nick

Nick Collins

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Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"We may feel that nothing of which we have any knowledge or record has ever been done by mortal men, which surpasses their feats of arms. Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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sjb007
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Hi Nick and John

Thank you both for your comments, will digest them and try to get my head round them tomorrow. But until I can find out the whereabouts of my father during ww2 with any concrete evidence then applying or not applying for a medal to a place he may or may not have been to seems a long way off at the moment, but the information is extremely useful from both of you, should I ever get to that point and it's taken me three years so far of researching!

In the meantime I was invited to our local RMA branch tonight and took along the few photos and info I have about Dad and they were all very welcoming and helpful but at 60-70 years old, they were all too young to know the history of my Dad's unit! But they do have a 92 year old member, who was not there tonight but might be able to throw some light at their next monthly meeting.

I will post the photos tomorrow as it was suggested tonight that one of the photos shows my father with a POW possibly German or Italian! ...the plot thickens.

Thank you both once again for your help, off to Bedfordshire now, will add photos in morning.

Best wishes
Sarah

P.S. I have found reference to a 23 Div in the latest war diary I have but it refers to "HQ
23 Div" might be relevant??? Thank you both again.

NIC
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sjb007 wrote:

I have found reference to a 23 Div in the latest war diary I have but it refers to "HQ
23 Div" might be relevant???


Sarah,
What was the date?
Nick

Nick Collins

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Proud son of Cpl Mick Collins, 5 Troop, No5 Cdo

"We may feel that nothing of which we have any knowledge or record has ever been done by mortal men, which surpasses their feats of arms. Truly we may say of them, when shall their glory fade?"


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sjb007
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Hi Nick

Found reference to HQ 23 Division July-August 1942 and Camp 25 El Tahag is in the war diaries, not El Tahal.

Have uploaded the first three photos, have eight altogether, but seems to be restricted to three at a time.

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sjb007
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Hi Nick

Next three photos attached.
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sjb007
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Hi Nick

Last two photos.
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John M
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Joined: 18/04/2007 16:22:37
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Fantastic photos Sarah............

regards

john M

CVA Research Group

Do not speak.....unless it improves on Silence.

A good teacher opens the door.....you must enter yourself.


For Dad No 12 Commando & 4 Troop No 1 Commando
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sjb007
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Hi John

Thank you, I treasure these photos because I do not have a lot of my Dad, I just wish I could find out more about them. The only one with any writing on is the final photo, of the SA Division.

I was told last night that the ship crew was British and they were stokers but I do not know the connection there and that Dad with the POW was either Italian or German, also the one with Dad walking was with someone from a tank unit, but as there are no names, dates, places, it might be hard to verify these. Hopefully someone might be able to throw more light.

Thanks John again.

Best wishes
Sarah
John M
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Hi Sarah

About the time of your fathers service there were 'Burma' and a 'Crete' RM training camps in Wales which your fathers unit were attendees at...........could these be of any significance I wonder?

Ref By Sea By Land James ladd.

regards
john m

CVA Research Group

Do not speak.....unless it improves on Silence.

A good teacher opens the door.....you must enter yourself.


For Dad No 12 Commando & 4 Troop No 1 Commando
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