The meaning / significance of code numbers stamped on 1st pattern FS Knives.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 02/01/2011 19:20:25

Hi

As promised here are the photos of Jim Dix's Bowie Knife including some close up details of the stamped numbers, plus a photo of Jim's 1st pattern F/S and Bowie knives reunited after 65 years!!

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 02/01/2011 19:28:18

Further photos of Jim Dix's Bowie Knife.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 02/01/2011 19:27:44

Next set of photos of Jim Dix's Bowie knife including his 1st pattern F/S knife. Many thanks to Brian Moyse who took the time to take these photos and for giving permission to reproduce them here.

Cheers Andy

Many thanks Andy for posting these.

All that I can offer at this point is confirmation that the knife is not a Wilkinson RBD knife. The mystery remains regarding the original meaning of 30946.

I believe that asking Commando veterans directly if they recall the significance of either 30946 or 30944 might reveal something more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 03/01/2011 11:49:06

Hi all

I have now posted a document on the FS Commando Knife which was sent to me by Tom Sherman OBE formerly of No.2 Commando. Post war Tom became CO and Honorary Colonel of the RMR Merseyside. That document can be seen here:

http://www.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/v/Commando+Badges+and+Memorabilia/Knife/

I have also been in touch with Eric Buckmaster of No.2 Commando who has contacted some veterans from No.3 Commando. This is his reply which albeit is inconclusive as regards the numbers is most interesting, "

Peter,

Re: Numbers on Fighting Knives & Kit Bags ( 3 Commando ).

With reference to your enquiry to me, I wrote to 3 still Active Former Members of ( 3 Commando ) to ask for any possible information regarding the Numbers Stamped on Fighting Knives, and showing also on Kitbags in the Photograph of their 4 Troop.

Sgt John White of 4 Troop, Freddie Walker Ex 4 Troop, and Roy Cadman 1 Troop. Jim Dix who is mentioned was a Lance Sgt in 4 Troop. Unfortunately, they can offer no specific information with regard to the Numbers.

They confirm that Fighting knives were issued for the operations on Vaagso, Lofoten, & possibly Dieppe, but were required to be returned to Stores by Survivors. From the beginning of 1942 onwards Fighting Knives were not generally issued. They were not over popular in all quarters, They were inclined to be Handle Heavy and when clipped to your Belt they hung upside down.

Those people who still had Knives them had probably ? Found ? them or they were Traded.

With regard to the Numbers on Both the Knives or Kitbags, we have to assume that these are either Unit Stores numbers or Transit Numbers, possibly a combination of Both.

3 Commando were withdrawn from the Mediterranean Area, and returned to the UK for re-establishment, and then took part in the European actions from D Day onwards. Whereas 2 Brigade continued in Yugoslavia, Albania & the Italian Mainland.

The procedures for handling Kit & Baggage varied according to the size or type or time of operation that units might be involved in . For Battle order sometimes we operated with Big Pack equipment, sometimes Small Pack Order. If it was expected that our Base would change whist we were involved elsewhere, then all other Kit & Bags would be Marked up and handed to Stores until we caught up with them again.

It is thought that the 3 Commando, 4 Troop picture that shows the Number 30944 on Kitbags was taken when they touched down at Gibraltar, en route to the UK. Or perhaps when they were leaving there. ???.

Sorry that I have not been able to elicit a more positive explanation of the Numbers, but it is a long time ago and even with the most alert comrades to-day, not all details of Memory survives. Perhaps if we could locate a former Quartermaster, we could turn up a better answer.

Regards, Eric.

Eric tells me he still has one other line of inquiry to pursue.

My thanks to Eric for all his efforts

Pete R.

Hi

I have recently been contacted by Brian Moyse, who has asked me to post this message to see if any further info can be provided regarding this matter:

"Dear Andy,
Greetings from an overcast & very wet College Station Texas.I trust that all is well with you & yours over there in the pre-olympian UK.

It would appear our quest to identify the mystery behind 5 digit WW2 codes has 'stalled' & was wondering if you agreed to give it another try in the hope that one of the few remaining Commandos might provide a crucial lead.

So far we have noted 30946 (plus up to another 3 digit number on the reverse)stamped into the hilt of Wilkinsons made Fairbairn Sykes First Pattern Fighting knife handles,plus one William Rogers Sheffield Bowie.Applying up to 8 number stamps on each knife was a lot of work & was not done by the manufacturers, but added prior to these being issued to the Commandos.So person or persons unknown went to a lot of trouble to be able to identify these knives.
These numbers are thought to be an arms store number,rack number,depot,training camp,armoury etc. or even an identifier for a place, say Inverailort or Arisaig as we believe these knives were marked before 1942 when Achnacarry was brought into play as the Commando school, but we do not know this for sure.

Also we have seen in a photo kitbags belonging to 4 troop of 3 Commando marked 30944,this is thought to be Gibraltar.Yet another photo, this time it's 40 RM Commando on Malta where it looks like these kitbags have 30960 painted on.

So for now it looks like: 30944= Gibraltar?,30946= ????? & 30960= Malta?

What we need is a secret map showing this ,or a list of WW2 places with the corresponding 5 digit code.or of course someone who remembers something related to this mystery.

I have tried everything that I can think of plus I regularly discuss it with Roy.I have not given up but thought that maybe you could make another appeal on the CVA site.
Thank You Andy,Brian the Essex boy in Texas"

Cheers Andy

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 27/03/2012 16:23:15

Hi Andy,

Robert Wilkinson -Latham son of Jack Wilkinson-Latham, suggest in his excellent book on the FS knife that these numbered knifes were training knifes which were accepted into store with 30946 (and others) as batch numbers for training equipment.

Cheers JB