Search for the family of Pte Sam (Jock) Wilson, No6 Cdo & Black Watch;

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/02/2010 22:37:41

Hi,
I don't know if this might sound like an unusual request or not:
I'm trying to search for any living relatives of a Commando from Black Watch (I think he was in number 2 Commando), who fell on -or shortly after- D-Day. I have a nickname of 'Jock', but I'll try to find his army number.

I'd be really grateful for any help that people here might have to offer
Andy Prest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 31/01/2010 13:39:10

Hi Andy and welcome to the CVA. Your request is as you say unusual in as much as you say so little about him yet you also say you might be able to find his service number. It's usually the other way round, with people not knowing the service number. Also I am sure you realise how common a nickname of Jock is, and was, as regards the Scots. No.2 Cdo did not take part in the Normandy landings if that was what you meant. They were in a different theatre of war. I am aware of soldiers from the Black Watch being attached to several different Commando Units - 2, 9 and and 11 being just 3 of them. However I am sure some went to others as well. So I would seek out his service number and any other details you can find. Also you do not say in what context you seek the information,ie. relative, research, an enquiry on an item you have in your possession, etc. Every little bit helps so gather as much as you can and post here.

Regards

Hi Andy,

As Pete has said you have given us very little to go on - not even a surname!

Are you aware of Jock's surname? at this stage it would be as useful as his service number, however, if you can provide both then we can narrow the search down considerably.

Regards,
Nick

Hi, have found the details now (it's always hard for me to find stuff in my house):
His service number is 2764432 and it's Private S. Wilson.
It's Number 6 Commando, not Number 2 (sorry, I was trying to go from memory whilst trying to find the information).

Many thanks to all who read + replied.

Andy.

Hi Andy,
See this link for the CWGC (Commonwealth War graves Commission) record:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2344708

Nick

and here is the link to his record on the No6 Commando website:

http://www.6commando.com/Pages/Other%20Ranks/OR%20Pages/W/Wilson%20S/OR%20Wilson%20S.html

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/02/2010 20:12:16

Many thanks for the advice Nick.
I'm hoping that people can help me with this search (forgive me if this is posted in the wrong place):

The reason why I'm trying to trace any living relatives of Private Sam Wilson (6 Commando, service number 2764432) may be a bit unusual, but I'm hoping that people here might be able to help:

Some time ago, I won an item on EBay which had come from perhaps a house clearance, or a car boot sale, or some such...the person I bought it from couldn't remember when, where, who from, or how they'd got it.
The item in question is a roof slate which has been painted with a very touching poem and a very nice picture which depicts Private Wilson's gravestone (or at least a gravestone with his name and service number on it).
The item strikes me as something that a lot of work and though had gone into and which has had a lot of care taken over it, so I guess that Private Wilson was important in some way to the artist, but this is just a guess.
The slate is signed, but I haven't started trying to trace the artist, so it may have even been painted by a comrade or family member.

At the moment, the item is in my house and I am very happy to hold onto it, as I feel that we should always remember the veterans and people who fought (and who carry on fighting) for this country, our way of life and for the freedoms that we enjoy.
However, I wanted to try to see if I could track down any of his relatives to see if I could donate this to them (or perhaps to his regiment?) as I think perhaps they might be able to treasure this as a part of their family history.
I'm not doing this for money, or even for any recognition and it's not just to "get this out of my house"; I just think that his family might want to add it to their own history.
I think Private Wilson wasn't married and had no children, but I guess there may be other family members (siblings, aunts and uncles, etc) who I could try to contact.

I realise that it's probably a really long shot, but if you hear of anyone from his family trying to get in touch for more information, I'd be really very grateful if they could get in touch with me?

Many thanks for your interest in reading this and thanks in advance for any help that you might be able to provide,

Andy Prest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/02/2010 22:29:20

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your explanation and for caring that this artefact should return to Pte Wilson's family

The CWGC record states that Pte Wilson's immediate family were in Morley Yorkshire.

I would suggest that you post a letter in the local papers of that area in the hope that a living relative may see it.

I have had a great deal of success with this in the past.

Good luck in your quest and keep us posted with your progress and, of course, if we find anything we'll post it here.

Nick

I would be interested to understand what the poem says for a number of reasons, one of which is personal in regards to my Grandfather.

Peter Bowe
www.6commando.com

Would it be possible to post a photo of the roof slate on this site?
I am sure that it would be of interest to many.

Hi all,
Thank you very much for your continued interest and support in this; it means a lot to me personally.

I don't have a photo, as I haven't got a digital camera. However, I will post what it says and a description (as best as I can manage) in the hope not only that it helps my search, but also as (I feel) it is a fitting remembrance for the fallen and previous service personnel and also to those people who continue to serve our country so bravely and selflessly:

The painting is of a series of trees and clouds (it looks like a Spring or Summer's day when the trees are in full bloom) and the poem says:

There will come soft rain,
And the smell of the ground.
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound.
And frogs in their pools singing at night.
And wild plum trees in tremulous white,
Robins will wear feathers fire
Whistling their whims on a low fence wire.
Not one will care when it is done.
Not one would mind niether bird or tree,
If mankind perished utterly,
And spring herself when she woke at dawn,
Would scarcely know that we were gone.

As the viewer looks at the picture: Underneath the poem in the foreground, are three gravestones and the middle one which is foremost in front of the other two (which are not named or have any insignia) has a robin sat on the right hand side looking leftwards and it says:

NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT
THE BLACK WATCH
[These are on a crest/coat of arms]

2764432 PRIVATE
S WILSON
THE BLACK WATCH
NO6 COMMANDO
10TH JUNE 1944 AGE 22

[The Gravestone has a swallow on the left looking right; it looks as though it is reading the commemoration/dedication/words].

TO LIVE IN HEARTS
WE LEAVE BEHIND
IS NOT TO DIE.
THE FAMILY

The painting is signed "M Trimby" (not dated, but it is painted on a roof slate which is approx 2 feet tall by 14 and a half inches wide).
I have not been able to find out if M Trimby is a professional artist or an amateur (e.g. an artistic family member/friend of the family).

I have contacted the archivist at The Black Watch Regiment, who has recommended I enquire with local newspapers in Morley. I had already posted an electronic enquiry on a newspaper's website, but I think this only covers East Yorkshire and I do not know if this will be right for Morley or Private Wilson.

I am going to apply for a birth certificate for Private Wilson to try to see which area he was born in so that I might be able to get a more accurate idea of where to enquire and also to try to see about family members.

I am trying to do this with as much respect and reverence as I can, so I will never become impatient with this enquiry. I know that this will be a long process and I do not expect people here to "do all the work for me"...having little information about my background (due to my own adoption), this now seems to have become something of a "personal journey" for me in my life and I feel very much honoured to be a part of it. However, I would be exceedingly grateful for any advice, guidance or just support from people here, as I have not done any tracing before.

Many thanks once again to all for reading this and for your continued support.
Andy.
Andrew Prest
[email protected]

Hi Andy

The Special Forces Roll of Honour has one additional piece of information showing him as residing in Leeds:

http://www.specialforcesroh.com/browse.php?mode=viewiroll&rollid=1438

You may wish to contact John Robertson, the administrator, to see if he has anything more on file.

Just as an additional note the poem was written I believe by Sarah Teasdale (1884 -1933) and the quote by Thomas Campbell (1777 - 1844)

Pete

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 20/03/2011 21:25:43

Brilliant! Many thanks, Pete.
I've just registered with the Special Forces site and have emailed John (the admin) with my enquiry.
Knowing that he was born in Leeds is really helpful, as Yorkshire is a big place, but I may be able to find out the identities of any other family members, siblings, etc. I understand that (quite rightly) I can't access his military records because I'm not part of his family, but other information -like this- is really valuable.
Thanks as well for letting me know about the poem, as it may have been one of the family's favourite's.

Many thanks once again,
Andy.

andygorn wrote: I understand that (quite rightly) I can't access his military records because I'm not part of his family, but other information -like this- is really valuable.

Andy,

You are able to apply for some of Pte Wilson's Service Records, without his next of kin's consent, given that the Date of Death was over 25 years ago.

MoD wrote:Making a Request for Information held on the Personnel Records of Deceased Service Personnel
The Ministry of Defence (MOD) is the custodian of the Records of Service of Service personnel until they are opened to general public access at The National Archives. Subject to the payment of an administration fee of £30 per record and provision of a death certificate (except where death was in service), certain information can be provided from these records on request under the MOD?s publication scheme. The scheme allows for information in these records to be exempt from the general provisions of the Freedom of Information Act by virtue of section 21(1) of the Act (Information accessible to an applicant by other means).

Under the scheme, and in recognition of the duty of care owed to the family of the deceased subject, for a period of 25 years following the date of death of the subject and without the consent of the Next of Kin, MOD will disclose only: surname; forename; rank; service number; regiment/corps; place of birth; age; date of birth; date of death where this occurred in service; the date an individual joined the service; the date of leaving; good conduct medals (i.e. Long Service and Good Conduct Medal (LS&GCM)), any orders of chivalry and gallantry medals (decorations of valour) awarded, some of which may have been announced in the London Gazette.

After this period, and if it is held, in addition MOD will disclose without the requirement for Next of Kin consent: the units in which he/she served; the dates of this service and the locations of those units; the ranks in which the service was carried out and details of WWII campaign medals...

Nick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 21/03/2011 00:54:06

How to Apply

If you wish to apply for a search you should download, complete and send to MOD the following forms:

For those who are not the immediate next of kin, and who are applying without the consent of the immediate next of kin, download and complete the Application Part 1 General Enquirer's form (see link) and the Application Part 2 form for the appropriate Service. The forms can be found in the Service Records publications.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/CorporatePublications/PersonnelPublications/ServiceRecords/RequestFormsForServicePersonnelDetailsGeneralEnquirersForm.htm

Nick